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Discouraging AI

Blog Posted:10/5/2024 12:31:00 AM

Having read the blogs, I think we need another strategy to reduce the AI content on the site. Just to be clear - the view from those not using AI is that:

  • Those that use AI undermine community engagement (basically it becomes a lie)
  • They do not deserve any glory because these are not their own words (even if they had the initial idea)
  • They deny genuine poets their rightful places in contests
  • They make judging a contest time-consuming (needing to check for AI) and therefore discourage sponsors and reduce contests overall, particularly the valued genuinely judged contests
  • They spam the new poems pages, making reading new poets work unappealing and difficult to find
  • They are not authentic (the very basis of being a poet)
  • Inadvertently commenting on AI work can make someone feel tricked (not the basis of friendship)

Here are some examples of what posting AI poetry is the same as:

  • Buying a jumper and saying you knitted it
  • Placing a shop-bought sandwich on MasterChef (and getting found out)
  • Milli Vanilli (but without the looks or the moves)

Here are some things we can do to discourage it:

  • Try not to comment on AI-generated poems just because they commented on your work. I have had AI 'poets' even message me asking me to comment on their work - part of the appeal is the dopamine hit of people saying they are good (top tip for AI poets - Chatgpt will give you rave reviews 24/7 on your poetry if you just ask).
  • Promote your own authenticity in your bio - a culture of honesty by declaration can sometimes deter a small number who have a mixed notion of what lying is.
  • Agree amongst ourselves what AI unacceptable use is and isn't. I don't believe it's unacceptable to use AI to research a topic (similar to googling), check punctuation and grammar, or provide advice on strengths and weaknesses in a poem. Rhyme zone is acceptable. Basically, tools are acceptable. What is not acceptable is AI writing the poem from a prompt, then the human using that as a base, the human writing a poem and asking AI to fix it, and the ultimate posting of completely AI-generated content. If there is any line generated by AI in a poem, then it's no longer a human-written poem - it's a collaboration with AI.
  • Be vigilant for the obvious clues of simple rhymes and clinical rhythm (there are so many flooding the pages with straight-up, basic AI-generated stuff).
  • Sponsors, as a minimum, check your top three placements for AI content (it shouldn't be too onerous for sponsors).
  • Those who think AI is fine - please create another blog that your supporters and all the AI 'poets' can engage in. I don't need to know that AI is happening whether I like it or not, that it's impossible to know (maybe I'll be fine once it's impossible to know - as then I won't be looking at obvious AI in prime locations, with a ton of comments and a prize rosette). It might be a pointless resistance but despite not feeling important to some, human creativity and authentic expression is at the core of humanity - so it is a pretty big deal, plus this is a site that people come to for genuine interaction - another core staple of humanity (the sector of humanity that values authenticity; if this is not you - then this isn't the blog for you).

We need to get to the crux of 'what is the point' for those posting AI:

  • If it's to fool, then don't be fooled.
  • If it's for false glory, then deny them the glory.
  • If it's to connect with other people, then demonstrate how we connect by being authentic.
  • If it's to spam the site, report it.

AI poetry doesn't lead to feel-goods - we've seen a lot on here and typically being discovered to be false leads to people not commenting or wanting to engage. Even if the threat of being banned is empty, whatever is built up using work that isn't your own will fall down one way or another.



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Date: 10/8/2024 10:07:00 PM
Thank you for taking time to tackle this issue on AI, D1lly specially that in this era we are surrounded with AI techs. I sponsored a new contest emphasizing that I don't allow AI generated poems. We usually know poets techniques here and we can at least pin point AI generated composition. To be sure we can check online. There are lots of apps that check plagiarism and machine generated poems. Thank you and happy writing everyone. :)
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Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/9/2024 8:54:00 AM
There's lots of debate about the checker's - they aren't perfect but I've found them useful to confirm suspicions. The AI is getting harder to detect but actually the standard submitted overwhelming on this site is basic and easy to identify. The fact is the issue is people cheating, plus flooding the site with spam rubbish. Glad you're on board :) thanks for your comment
Date: 10/6/2024 7:31:00 AM
I've reported many things on poetrysoup nothing is ever done, I'm wondering if complaints are even read, check out the poetry forum it's just full of crap. I'm a moderator on Familyfriendforum all complaints are dealt with within 24 hours.
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Team Poetrysoup
Date: 10/6/2024 7:30:00 PM
As far as the forum, that will be shut down soon.
Da11y Avatar
Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/6/2024 9:08:00 AM
Yes John, I've reported marketing of sexual acts and illegal drugs and they remain live. I just don't read the forums any more.
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Team Poetrysoup
Date: 10/6/2024 7:38:00 AM
The problem occurs when we disagree with the person reporting the issue. We address the concerns, but when our decision does not agree with the person reporting an issue, they get upset. We have to look at a variety of factors when making a decision.
Date: 10/5/2024 9:18:00 PM
You ask 'what is the point of posting'? Maybe it is a generation that is no longer relevant. My generation threw over governments and our music was tuneful and the lyrics soul searching. Nowadays there are only Swifties and remixes heard through a fog of noise. When someone was weaned on computer games, the vocabulary and empathy lacks to express poetically one's current environment and emotions. To some it is a harmless game. But it is nevertheless disrespectful to insist they are authentic despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary - there is a marked difference between poorly expressed poetry and fake words strung together. We don't need to entertain them; ghosting will do the trick.
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Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 11:38:00 PM
Taylor Swift has some amazing lyrics Su, you should give her a listen. I love "who's afraid of little old me". Her chart stuff is poppy but she has the bones of a poet. I don't think it's a particular generation invading PS. It's just a range of people now with the means to cheat. . Just instructing to 'write a poem about clouds', 'write a poem about heart break'. I'm sure in the future AI and human collaborations will be an amazing thing in poetry. As you know having had to read a chunk of the stuff in contests, there is some where it's a maybe and we'll give the benefit of the doubt. But the tell will be in the repeating posting of flawless soulless work. Currently it has tells and the rhyming poet has no fear because it's not the same as that. It's that's logical route through a poem that isn't the human approach. Human poets meander and reveal the poem to themselves as they are writing. AI just follows a formula.
Date: 10/5/2024 8:23:00 PM
You laid it out nicely, Dilly Dally. The Milli Vanilli example is spot on.
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Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 11:21:00 PM
I'd just seen something about them, so weaved it in haha. If you have to be real anywhere it's in poetry. It's just a shame people will happily ruin a community for 5 minutes of glory.
Date: 10/5/2024 6:38:00 PM
Excellent Blog, one of the very best I have read in many years of being here on the Soup. I do not think you left anything out. Thank you for your effort in writing, researching, and your so much valued truth in these articles on AI. You have woken the masses with this fine Blog of yours. Thank you so much for sharing....
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Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 11:16:00 PM
Thank you Michael, I just think it's better to be aware and hopefully those using AI (as we are talking about people cheating here, not really about artificial intelligence) get a wake up call and realise poetry isn't the place to fake stuff. Thank you for your very kind words, appreciated
Date: 10/5/2024 4:14:00 PM
Brilliantly written Dilly, Bravo for the time and effort you took in creating this blog and allowing us to comment too! hugs jan xx
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Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 11:13:00 PM
Thank you Jan - it was a very short write truth be told. Every point is obvious to me. I'm not suggesting shunning everyone who uses basic rhyme or anything like that but there are those so incredibly blatantly using AI and putting no measures in place will just mean every feature of the site will be meaningless as we'd never read new poets or bother engaging outside of our own little groups. I'm relatively new to the site so I know how important that is. I wish I had spent more time writing it, but it isn't my job - I was just frustrated at the approach
Date: 10/5/2024 10:25:00 AM
Terrific Blog. You do realize, of course, there are "poets" using AI who care less about anybody else's comments, criteria, conscience. Maybe they are just laughing at all PS (or other poets) and using the system to mischievously engage what they deem conservative fuddie duddie's. AI is anathema in literature and poetry. There are those who would flip us all off for sport. What's next? Is it even possible to control a horse who has left the barn running?
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Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 12:54:00 PM
It's just cheats and con artists - pure and simple. Whether they need the morale boost or intend to fool doesn't really matter. Being human right now is as important as it's ever been. Thank you for your comment.
Cornish Avatar
Craig Cornish
Date: 10/5/2024 10:57:00 AM
That said - I actually don't fear it at all, though I respect its influence---I will still write and am not intimidated to measure against it.
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Craig Cornish
Date: 10/5/2024 10:54:00 AM
I hear ya Charlotte and yes, some will be replaced - the "Buggy-whip" syndrome (!?) yet, there's always that intimidation factor - I know, for instance, nothing can replicate your pen...and, it's good, because it challenges our originality and eventually will be able to effectively detect itself? Passion is something it can never have (though it will mirror it). 50 years ago people feared the simple Texas Instruments calculators would replace common multiplication tables and their necessities, yet Prometheus bears its counsel!
Date: 10/5/2024 9:37:00 AM
we are moving towards a digital dystopia, which is designed to be in place by 2030; all governments are working to that agenda..AI will be a huge part of that, along with a digital currency and ultimately human connection to the smart grid; there isn't much pushback against it, indeed most people are helping to usher it in by becoming ever more dependent on technology..AI will take over more and more, it does people out of jobs already, it's part of living in a digital world, which a lot of people seem to want, so they will have to take the bitter with the sweet, and that unfortunately includes AI poetry...
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Michael Tor
Date: 10/5/2024 6:42:00 PM
Go girl. Charlotte you are in the know. I love that you know their agenda. I was so impressed with your knowledge and truth now we have to get everyone on board. You are so right!!!!!!
Da11y Avatar
Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 12:51:00 PM
The belief we are heading towards a dystopia isn't a new thing. The world is changing but creativity is still deemed human and connection to emotion still and always will be at the centre of that. Unless we are shortly becoming cyborgs and vulcans then I think we can cling to writing and enjoying poetry written by a person. I see no reason why I need to endure AI poetry - that isn't part of any bigger picture, it's a personal choice and therefore under my control.
Date: 10/5/2024 7:35:00 AM
Dilly, your blog is great, each word well thought out and I totally agree. I have armed myself with three AI detectors that I trust and will check each poem entered in my contest, yes, it will take extra time, so what. Any poem found to be AI will not place, I will report as TPS want us too, and will block that poet, as these are not people I want to comment on or be commented on by. Constance
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Constance La France
Date: 10/6/2024 11:26:00 AM
DD, it is time consuming but so far not too bad, no more time than checking for syllables or rhyming, you sort of get a rhymn going, and 1,2,3,4,5, you got it done. Oh yeah, then you have to actually read the poem, lol !
Da11y Avatar
Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 7:44:00 AM
That's a solid plan Constance. Some are indeed touting for comments by prolifically commenting sometimes too. I think just choosing your winners then checking is less time intensive - think I'd go mad checking all 35.
Date: 10/5/2024 7:24:00 AM
Dilly, you've gone to great effort to point out what some fail to realize, and some take the attitude of 'so what?' I commend you for making your observations clear enough for even the stubborn minded to comprehend, but ultimately, they will do so anyway. It's not difficult to recognize AI when certain poets write lines that are 5th grade level and then post one that is of laureate quality *** Someone needs to come up with a 100% accurate detector... but I fear the only thing capable of accomplishing that task is an AI.
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Jan Allison
Date: 10/5/2024 5:03:00 PM
you will never get a definitive answer Lin, sad but true:-( the same way they have rules and if you alert them to an issue like people having more than one account) they just ignore your mail. despite what some say, we can see that soup is sliding down the pan
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Lin Lane
Date: 10/5/2024 7:57:00 AM
We are definitely on the same page, and the point I tried to make by asking if poets who use AI will have their accounts banned. Dodged without an answer. You have your finger on the pulse of those who take part in blogs because they seek attention. If it's earned attention they want, they should write poetry instead of hanging out in blogs, waiting to pounce.
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Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 7:41:00 AM
The blog appeared fully formed (bar the bullet points, which I had to go back and add to make it readable) as I was just maximum irritated by all the knock backs in the previous blogs. Yes, it's pretty inevitable but it's like the site is flooded with slurry at the moment and the advice is hold your nose and carry on rather than stop the slurry. Everyone was being beaten down comment by comment on the other blogs and it just made sense to try and say it again. Hopefully some will see the light and be deterred, some will fear exposure, some will not get what they want (e.g comments and praise) and others will get banned. It looked like it was turning around so all human poets will be banned from mentioning it whilst AI talks to itself all over the site (unfortunately AI doesn't buy anything from advertising sites - neither do I but shh - so there's a flaw in the AI for AI site takeover) thanks for your comment, I know we're on the same page with this completely.
Date: 10/5/2024 5:29:00 AM
Agree but as far as I know, it is not easy to detect an AI generated poem, the programs which are said to do so are unreliable and our intuition is not infallible.
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Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 5:59:00 AM
It's easy, the eye can be trained pretty quick and the logic of the detectors is quite good. If you are talking checking one poem then perhaps there's chance of an error but then you look at the pattern of behaviour and there really is very little room for error. The site is flooded with those posted overly poetic titles, clinical rhythm and dull rhyme scheme and the poem just has an empty feeling, hollow. Pair that with no consistent poetic voice and several clustered poems on different themes and the person being an unknown and those are clear.
Date: 10/5/2024 5:19:00 AM
Great thoughts on Ai! So foolish, people are, when they put their name to something a machine fashioned, as poetry is from the very heart of the poet.
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Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 5:55:00 AM
There will be several reasons, some will be translation perhaps, some tidying up mediocre work but there is tons of complete AI rubbish churned out and posted one after the other. They need their own site which auto generates a comment and a rosette for them haha
Date: 10/5/2024 5:18:00 AM
Wow, quite a well thought-out blog DD - can't help think of the song "Paper Roses" ~ "But they're only imitation, like your imitation love for me"... way too many frauds with no conscience!
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Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 5:53:00 AM
Thanks Craig, I've been thinking about it a while but every time I tried to make a point I was being shot down. I actually wrote this in one breath as I was feeling passionately about keeping the nice elements of the community. I don't have high hopes the frauds have a conscience but I'm sure they'd prefer most people to be unaware and at least talking about it will equip people with an eye for spotting it. I taught my daughter to spot a fake from the titles in the new poems earlier. Took 5 minutes and she got 75% accuracy on spotting the 100% AI (there was a LOT to choose from!)
Date: 10/5/2024 5:05:00 AM
Blog of the year Dilly! What true poet would want to be part of a tolerant fake poetry site, the least we can do is not make it easy for AI users, choking them off in comments is probably the best tool we have at the moment, I cannot add anything more, other than to say I totally agree with everything you’ve written here, wish I could Fave this blog, cheers David
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Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 5:48:00 AM
Thanks David - I suddenly had a surge of annoyance at the fact we were expected to let it ride.
Date: 10/5/2024 4:06:00 AM
Di11y, an excellent blog, well said. I agree one hundred percent with your sentiments about AI. I hope others will pause and not post AI generated poems or not enter them in contests. It is more challenging for contest sponsors and frankly, takes all the fun out of contests period. Thank you for posting your blog.
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Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 5:47:00 AM
The weird thing is I see some that are well known for it still swanning about bold as brass, although some have obviously reverted to writing their own again. If it wasn't ruining the site some of it would be funny :)
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Suzette Richards
Date: 10/5/2024 5:02:00 AM
I did not think I would ever say this, but I agree with you whole heartedly, Tania. It has lost the fun factor. As sponsor, I really have to dig deep to keep up my enthusiasm, but for how long, I don't know. I take my hat off to you that you are still prepared to sponsor Limericks on a regular basis.
Date: 10/5/2024 2:27:00 AM
I'm a bit worried now of "simple rhyming" being a factor, it's sometimes what I do when I'm writing nonsense, although I did rhyme saucers with tortoise in a recent potd poem, but seriously it bothers me a little if a genuinely talented writer writes excellent meter, are they going to be suspected? We wouldn't not listen to music because it sounded too good or stop watching a sports team because they played too well. I hope we can still recognise genuine talent and think an exceptional poem is not AI first. Just a thought, and concern.
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Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 5:45:00 AM
I don't think well-written poems by humans land a big risk of being identified as AI. It's quite technical how it works. The rhythm tends to just be too clean (soulless) and it flows logically (unlike a human mind writing and discovering as it's revealed to them during the writing). Even if you rhyme you're safe. I bet you could write the cat sat on the mat and turn it into a thrilling adventure!
Date: 10/5/2024 2:01:00 AM
Thank you for this blog, Di11y Da11y. It needed to be said. AI 'poets' remind me of catfishing, or a certain politician that is crying foul, because he thought the debate would not be fact checked. Hoodwinking others is dishonest, never mind how you dress it up. I have no problem when AI-generated material (limited amount) is used to illustrate a point (I have done it in the past in blogs), but then it needs to be clearly identified as such with date and chapter and verse - much like crediting a quote used in your poem, or being inspired by ... AI might be around for a while yet or longer, but true poets are here to stay.
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Di11y Da11y
Date: 10/5/2024 5:41:00 AM
I doubt true poets will stay if it gets any worse, it's a bit like when the wrong crowd takes over your favourite haunt and in the end it's better to go elsewhere and leave them to it.

My Past Blog Posts

 
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A Hand In Time Free verseage,memory,
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Peaches Prose Poetrycat,pets,
The Longing Free verselonging,spiritual,
Still As My Shadow Rhymedevotion,i miss you,lost,
Just a Bit of Dust Rhymehumor,silly,
Putting Myself Together Free versecreation,identity,self,
Simple Pleasures Free versememory,sun,wine,
Glass Hours Sonnetdeath,fate,time,
Alone Suzette Primeanalogy,inspiration,metap
Suspension Tableau Verselonging,love,passion,
Meditations On a Derelict Wharf Free verseage,hope,mystery,visionar
Rinse Clear POTD Free verseintrospection,pollution,
Downsizing Free verseintrospection,self,stress
Ricochet Haikubird,fun,
Written Pages Free versemorning,universe,writing,
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Relish the Richness Versepoetry,
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Poetry Conceived Didacticpoetry,
J Is For Journey Biojourney,poetry,
Ekphrasis Wols Didacticart,
On Rainy Afternoons Free versechild,sad,solitude,
This::illusion Monorhymelife,perspective,word pla
Poetics the Essence Didacticpoetry,
Formless Poetry Free verseart,poetry,poets,
The Persistence of Memory Painting by Salvador Dali - Collaboration with Dilly Dally Ekphrasisart,deep,imagery,poetry,s
The Instrument Free versesong,
Heartbroken Quatrainheart,love,spiritual,
more than meets the eye Tankahow i feel,perspective,
Hector Free versebird,humor,nostalgia,
A Picture of Him Free versegrandfather,memory,
The Shadow Free versedark,dream,poetry,
The Work Free verseallusion,poetry,self,
Newspaper clippings Rhymeconfusion,god,life,
Nowhere Free versejourney,life,
Spontaneity Free verselife,perspective,spiritua
My oblivious eye Rhymedeep,life,perspective,
Haunting Free versepsychological,
We Are Not Alone Free versepoetry,
Gathering Free verseautumn,
Poetaholic Verseanalogy,poetry,poets,
Talking Free versepoetry,
Vigilant Veil Free verseanalogy,angst,emotions,fe
The Mythical River Beast Free verseboat,magic,river,
Wildflowers Free verseflower,thanks,time,
The Labrador Free versecare,creation,dog,earth,s
swizzles Free versehomework,school,student,
wind dreams Free versedream,wind,
Zen Mode Free verselove,
The Relic Free verselife,poetry,sea,
The Other Free verseeve,self,
A Poet's Prayer Free versepoetry,prayer,
I walk in the shadow Rhymehow i feel,life,perspecti
in the realm of silver linings Monokulife,meaningful,perspecti
On the Other Side of a Peep Hole Free versechildhood,depression,memo
Being on the Outside Free verselove,pain,self,
In Memory of Backyards Free versechildhood,growth,home,in
The Narcissist Who Saved Himself - Cynthia Howard - collaboration with Dilly Dally Ekphrasisangst,deep,mental health,
MIDNIGHT'S TRYSTS Sonnetlove,lust,moon,
The space between stars is not empty Rhymeperspective,space,stars,
The Balance Free versepoetry,
In The Nick Of Time POTD Light Versefun,humorous,light,
The Great Conundrum Free verseearth,hope,life,spiritual
Many Coffees Go Cold - Reality Explained Free versefun,humorous,life,people,
::Limited edition:: Rhymeconfusion,i am,perspectiv
This Place Free versemythology,places,poetry,
DATSON Acrosticinspiration,inspirational
Swans Free versebird,mystery,self,
Empty the Pot Free versepoetry,
Anywhere but here Free versehow i feel,mental health,
Small Fish Free versefish,mirror,self,water,
Lifting of The Wreck Free verseboat,history,river,
That Guy Free versepoetry,
When My Nikon Died Free versepoetry,
uncontested Tankaconflict,deep,introspecti
Dying in the Moment Free versepoetry,
Novembers End Free versepoetry,
Moving Out Free versepoetry,
Humanity Rhymehumanity,perspective,scie
the human condition Rhymeinnocence,introspection,l
Trial of Bridget Bishop Rhymefeelings,history,
veins of vanity Free versedeep,muse,
Sensuous Art -Pink Sweet Peas by Georgia O'Keeffe Rhymeart,perspective,
Never Born, Never Died Free versepoetry,
skating upon saturn’s rings Tankadeep,how i feel,perspecti
I shall find a way or make one Rhymedark,dream,life,
From The Poets Laboratory Free versepoetry,
Insignificant Monster No More Free versedark,gothic,imagery,night
burgundy bliss Free versedeep,
I swear to tell the truth Free versehow i feel,life,perspecti
she’ll be right mate Monokuanti bullying,internation
Shadows Suzette Primelove hurts,
Zen mode Free versei am,spiritual,

Fav Poets

PoetCountry 
Peter Rees United Kingdom Flag United Kingdom Read
C.W. Bryan United States Flag United States Read
Valsa George India Flag India Read
Gary Radice United Kingdom Flag United Kingdom Read
Hat Bueckert Canada Flag Canada Read
Paul Willason Australia Flag Australia Read
Terry Ireland United Kingdom Flag United Kingdom Read
David Kavanagh Ireland Flag Ireland Read
Paul Bell United Kingdom Flag United Kingdom Read
Emile Pinet Canada Flag Canada Read
Daniel Turner United States Flag United States Read
John Lawless United States Flag United States Read
Triny Xiang United States Flag United States Read
Speaks Volumes Australia Flag Australia Read
Eric Ashford United States Flag United States Read
Suzette Richards South Africa Flag South Africa Read
Silent One United Kingdom Flag United Kingdom Read
Joanna Daniel India Flag India Read
Unseeking Seeker India Flag India Read
Hilda Greenhough United States Flag United States Read
Bill Baker United States Flag United States Read
Vickey Rhymer United States Flag United States Read
Brian Strand United Kingdom Flag United Kingdom Read
Andrea Dietrich United States Flag United States Read
Karen Jones United States Flag United States Read
Craig Cornish United States Flag United States Read
Clive Culverhouse United Kingdom Flag United Kingdom Read
Mat Ignacio Canada Flag Canada Read
Ink Empress Maldives Flag Maldives Read
Candide Diderot United Kingdom Flag United Kingdom Read
Lin Lane United States Flag United States Read
Jan Allison Isle Of Man Flag Isle Of Man Read
Hiba Junaid _Not Listed Flag _Not Listed Read
Edward Ibeh United States Flag United States Read
Sara Jama United Kingdom Flag United Kingdom Read
Billie Jama United Kingdom Flag United Kingdom Read
Daniel Henry Rodgers United States Flag United States Read

Book: Radiant Verses: A Journey Through Inspiring Poetry