Writing, Writing, Writing - Debbie Guzzi's Blog

Lately, since we were working on the Crown Sonnet and since a friend of mine is working on a short story, she and I have been discussing STYLE. I don't work the way she does. I just sit down and start typing and the quicker I can get 'In character the better'. I work in a kind of trance state. I don't PLAN unless its a form which requires a certain structure BUT I don't/didn't see prose as that? [But to a big extend I was wrong!]
I have been attending local writers groups and during the last one when mentioning this discord, another writer said there are 2 types of writers one is what's called an architect:

The architect is the one who plots things very thoroughly. He knows everything that happens before he begins. Obviously every writer should have an idea of what's going to happen in their story, but the architect has a better grip on the smaller details and subtleties between the characters.



It is beneficial because this style:

1. Knowing what's going to happen to the characters
2. Keeping the plot tight
3. Knowing what's going to happen between the characters

It's a a powerful approach, if you know what's going to happen down to the last detail it prevents you from overwriting the important scenes--rather, the slow parts and the dramatic parts.

And I am a gardener:

The gardener is the one who will allow things to flow in a more spontaneous manner. He knows what's going to happen in the big scenes, but the gardener allows subtleties and relationships to progress as he writes, rather than having them plotted out before hand.
 


The benefits of this style are:

1. Allowing for spontaneity
2. Perhaps allowing certain characters to grow in ways you didn't expect them
3. Allowing for you to head in a direction you didn't think you would


 I think they also apply to which side of the brain you're dominant in - A gardener
would be more likely to write a CHARACTER DRIVEN PLOT - the character progresses until the story ends. [Right brained ]

An architect would be more likely to write a PLOT DRIVEN story! 

Do you know which one YOU ARE?

Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/8/2014 8:47:00 AM well I have to tell you I'm SO confused, the VOICE? [what the heck is that? like whose telling the story?] There's point of view? [how does or does point of view relate to VOICE?] cause if the narrator is NOT a main character and has omnipotent POV? And the main character is NOT telling the story & [LOL I the main character .. my brains frying!] well the main character is in THIRD PERSON - how do all 3 relate and what are all the possible combinations???? I'd really like a list? Login to Reply Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/8/2014 5:00:00 PM Oh, WAIT! I've got it. You know tone! The tone of a poem.. is it deep, contemplative, sensual, rough, angry.. think of the words you choose for THAT poem, particular to that poem's tone. You are GENIUS at that. What tone is to poem, voice is to story? Did I help? Make it worse? I am really trying to help... Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/8/2014 4:56:00 PM (cont)Their history, losses, loves, education, desires, anguish... all can play a part in their Voice... Interview with a vampire... Louis's voice.. his loss... his pain... his HUMANITY... not Lestat's voice... the story would have been colder? YES? Have a different tone... Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/8/2014 4:54:00 PM Point of view is hmmm... like your character is looking through a telescope! What do they see? It is a narrow view. The person you choose for the point of view is the person who will tell your story. That person will have a unique perspective. Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/8/2014 4:50:00 PM (cont) (Dee not yelling.. Dee whispering with excitement. This is her passion... this is her heart and breath.. so I tumble over my words, wanting to get it all out... I-am-talking-like-this-causeiamsoexcited.. lol... SHARING WITH MY SIS...remember that feeling as a little girl? wanting to share? dragging someone around? See oh here and here and here... Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/8/2014 4:47:00 PM (cont) and YOU my smart Sis (again, yes really) really really do know VOICE, you just don't know you do. Remember when I went to write a word and you said to me, "Caleb would never say use that word. It isn't him." You KNEW his voice. Voice is the way a character THINKS and SPEAKS. It will affect the whole story. Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/8/2014 4:45:00 PM Okay, the Point of View is who is telling the story. Remember Wuthering Heights? Many people forget the point of view is that of a housekeeper, Nelly, Yes, really! Not Cathy and Heathcliff (the main characters) THIS IS NOT THE NORM. Usually, the main character (protagonist) is the Point of view (cont)

Andrea Dietrich Date: 3/7/2014 11:52:00 PM I'm a blend of the two and often I am only one or the other!! good blog. Login to Reply

Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/7/2014 4:50:00 PM No matter Dee, just don't yell at me and I am trying. I did get Hell's Kitchen published and that was my first Flash fiction/short story & can't help my prose being poetic, always has been always will be. Rice, Pynchon, & I sent you my musical chairs which I would LIKE to be a short story which isn't I don't think yet, why isn't it? It's still just a scene [yes?] so how do I grow it into a story? Login to Reply Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/8/2014 7:14:00 AM Question, hell's kitchen, was that the Gilded Mirror that you published in Muse, Bella-online? I thought that was creative non-fiction? Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/7/2014 9:04:00 PM Oh, Dear. The chairs is a retelling of one scene from a book written by someone else, hon. I have no idea how to grow that into a story. There is nothing wrong with poetic prose! I just meant I can't help develop poetic prose. It is or it isn't,you know? It isn't the same as fiction. David Williams Date: 3/7/2014 5:32:00 PM Debbie nothing is just a 'scene' a scene is an idea, an idea is a paragraph, a paragraph is a chapter, a chapter is a page, a page is a burst of ideas, a burst of ideas are a multitude of scenes, characters, dialogue, situations, narratives, then finally a book....

Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/7/2014 1:37:00 PM I've been extra busy in RL sorry I haven't gotten back to you. I am a good teacher but a bad student if you haven't noticed LOL - most of the time I MUST teach myself because few get what I don't get or why I don't get it when its so clear to them! My biggest challenge is a sequencing disorder. I never seem to put together the 'whole' in the same way anyone else does, I can do it! I can finish it correctly but I must be left to my own devises, no following directions. Usually I use pictures? Login to Reply Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/7/2014 1:51:00 PM What is RL, (I am embarrassed. I should know, right... sorry!) Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/7/2014 1:51:00 PM I have a picture I found on line of my Bryn. It spoke to me. I have three lines of a character "sketch" for her. The pictures said it all for me. I need to get it laminated (lol) Lord love a duck if it gets torn, stained. Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/7/2014 1:48:00 PM I feel awful because I had that "assumption cap" on that you are speaking of. You wrote to someone, "Dee changed the contest." I was so surprised. Then, I realized I'd ASSUMED too much ... writers know that an outline is totally flexible, is just a tool used, A CRUTCH, in case one stumbles. But it is never ever ever an absolute, at least not to many many writers. Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/7/2014 1:46:00 PM If you have any ideas for a short story- fiction I mean, not poetic prose- send me anything, even if ... I want to write about new life, a second chance (theme) and I can help you develop even a slip, a cat's whisker, an IDEA that you want to "grow." An idea, really, is an outline, too. Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/7/2014 1:44:00 PM But... if someone is struggling, saying, I want to be able to write short stories, but can't seem to get a handle on them, I keep running into the same walls, I keep being met with rejection... then I want to help them, hon. Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/7/2014 1:42:00 PM I WOULD NEVER stop a soul from creating something in their own way. Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/7/2014 1:42:00 PM Let's edit what I wrote. There is this guy and he decides to save his son, who is dying of a rare disease, and nothing, no one, will stop him from finding a cure. (Lorenzo's oil) Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/7/2014 1:41:00 PM :) Pictures, believe it or not, are a form of outline. Can you imagine anyone starting a story only knowing this... there is this guy, and something happens to him, that's it. LOL. Seinfeld? But... just a line, hon. A solitary idea, can lead to an entire story, easily.

Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/7/2014 6:59:00 AM Debbie, wrote a dialogue blog. It's up. Let me know if it helps with the beats, okay? Login to Reply

Eileen Manassian Date: 3/7/2014 4:33:00 AM DEBBIE!!! You NEVER cease to amaze me! What an interesting blog!!! I'm a gardener....BTW...I have a novel living inside my head! I started a few chapters when I was about 14...I've posted bits of it here on the soup. THE BROKEN MAN! HEE HEE! ;) As cheesy as they get. Now I know that each type has its own advantages...I relive scenes in my mind because, of course, it will become a movie...with me as the main character! HA HA! I've outgrown that dream. Now...I'm just too much into the immediate gratification poetry brings to get back to that. Maybe when I'm older...Got the last email. Will get to it this weekend. Been busy...no internet at home since yesterday. I'm at the office. Sending hugs! Login to Reply Eileen Manassian Date: 3/7/2014 4:44:00 AM OH BOY! This blog should have a TRIPPLE HOT icon next to it. I posted before I read everything. I LOVE IT. I love the bantering, the arguing, the...everything, and I'm LEARNING SO MUCH! Thanks, ladies and gentlemen!

Charmaine Chircop Date: 3/7/2014 1:02:00 AM Many times I am the gardener..Other few times I am the architect...Interesting blog..Charma.. Login to Reply

David Williams Date: 3/7/2014 12:43:00 AM Debbie in poetry you missed the third type, The Undertaker, this writer has the ending before the beginning and then works backwards, I do this quite often and when it comes to novels. short stories/ flash fiction etc. you should just write, write, write and when you think you have finished then edit , edit, edit. the Shaman is the plot....now build the details (story) around it.... Login to Reply Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/7/2014 9:46:00 PM About action? Agreed. Take Flowers for Algernon. I feel it has lots of action. It is one of the most "suspenseful" books I've ever read, yet the suspense is not the garden variety... it is terrifying all the same. Immeasurably heartbreaking. Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/7/2014 9:43:00 PM David, I took a seminar with a mystery writer, just a one day workshop, really. You are describing how mystery novelists write. They, obviously, know who killed who and how it was done... a mystery is solved at the end. I tried to write backwards, so hard! Cool you can do this! David Williams Date: 3/7/2014 5:23:00 PM Debbie there is lots of 'action' it is how you/ we define action, it does not have to be blood curdling to be action, reliving fear is action, conquering fear is action, excitement is down to the individual, the ceremony created a very good image , suspenseful.....good... Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/7/2014 5:18:00 PM It is getting better & better but basically there's no action, I guess it's a story of conquering fears and internal growth. I'd say the climax was the ceremony yes? David? It seems to me it is complete now it not very exciting to some people>?

Roy Jerden Date: 3/6/2014 8:36:00 PM I haven't written any prose stories, but many of my poems are story-like. I almost always have a phrase or stanza I want to build up to, so the end is usually defined first. There's not a defined outline, but I write out some ideas in prose and also some word combinations I'd like to use. I also have a pretty good idea of where I want to take the readers mind along the way in order to set the stage for the climax. I guess that makes me kind of an architect, even though I am slightly more right brained. Of course, then I go back and change a lot, so I guess that makes me a fuzzy-headed architect. Login to Reply

Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/6/2014 7:41:00 PM Well we are talking about writing how refreshing! I don't want to make an outline! Glad everyones having fun - So - what's a BEAT? Login to Reply Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/7/2014 7:01:00 AM LOL... Charlotte, wasn't IT where the clown is really a giant spider? AWK! LOL... I never have gotten his endings, but I LOVE LOVE his characterization. Charlotte Puddifoot Date: 3/7/2014 6:59:00 AM WHAT?? I can't believe you think stephen king has bad endings!! I LOVE his endings, and I thought 'it' was one of his best - I read and re-read it for what I thought was its sheer beauty (maybe it's because I'm an 'angel of the odd'!) lol :) Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 8:13:00 PM Now, a tag is a simple, He said. And they are essential to ensure that the who said what is clear to the reader. But a beat... hmmm... I will put up a quickie blog. I'll go work on it now. Just a short piece on beats, okay? xoxox Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 8:09:00 PM A beat. I love beats. Beats are the pauses inserted into dialogue which not only provide action, but also set a mood, slow down a story to "real time" and provide additional information on a character. Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 8:07:00 PM Take our gal Rice. She does it both ways. Interview was without an outline. Others she has written with an outline. King says he doesn't use one which explains his HORRIBLE endings (what the ? with It? Ugh) Agatha Christie HAD to use outlines. Too many details. All mystery writers use outlines. They need to leave red herrings.. clues, too... or else it makes no sense. Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 8:05:00 PM Or, in the case of a short story, maybe only 500 words, two pages? If you are willing to just explore, begin writing and see where it takes you, (you as in all writers) but most likely you will have to take out half your work.. the first pages and, perhaps even, the last. Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 8:02:00 PM Still, many writers CAN write longer pieces without so much as an idea where they are going and are willing to chop 100 of their first pages to get there. One of the points of an outline is to now where the story REALLY starts. If not, if it first explores, then you just have to be willing to let go.. sometimes of whole chapters. Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 8:00:00 PM Really, that is the WHOLE story? No, hon, what about the girl, the dead boy who the pharmacist was mourning? Did I outline that? No. How about the brother fighting overseas? No. I barely gave it bones. Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/6/2014 7:59:00 PM night night kiddle's have fun Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 7:59:00 PM (cont)If you create this simplest, flimsiest of outlines, just one character, a direction, a purpose to your story, you will be free to let it flow/go wherever you want, and you will get that nod from the editor. Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/6/2014 7:58:00 PM You see it's all semantics that's not an outline that's the whole story. outline introduction main character, setting conflict, climax, declining action, resolution. blah blah Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 7:57:00 PM (cont) no mention of his brother, no mention of the accident on the lake that cost him his hearing, no mention of the drugstore, no mention of his dreams of travel, his wife, his children, his home, his work, his uncle, Potter, the teacher, lulu's petals... SEE? A simple outline. A DIRECTION .. that is all. Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 7:54:00 PM I betcha BET I could change your mind... outline of It's a Wonderful Life: A man who has done good his whole life faces hardship and chooses to commit suicide but he is saved by an angel who lets him see what the world would be like without him it; this changes the man's perspective and he becomes happy with his life. The end. This is an outline.

Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 6:40:00 PM I just reread your blog and I'm bug eyed... because I 'think' you said that you don't see prose (fiction?) as having structure? UH? I'm actually speechless. The crowd applauds. Some say, "Thank God. She's been shut up." LOL.. honestly, my jaw is hanging. Oh, I could write FORTY blogs on the structure of fiction... and still would have more material. Poetry, and I don't mean to be offensive, is LESS structured (even FORMED verse) than fiction. (DEE DUCKS. DUCKS BIG TIME) Apparently, I got my voice back. LOL. I have been taking a vacation writing poetry. Writing a sonnet is like Disneyworld. Writing a short story is like hiking a hill. Writing a novel? Mount Everest. Login to Reply Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 6:47:00 PM aaaaaah, I see... yes, big extent wrong. Gotcha. WHEW... there is a great deal of ... structure, thought and wrangling in story writing. Oh, I wish I could share everything in ten minutes. Damn, frustrating.

Carol Eastman Date: 3/6/2014 6:21:00 PM I decide on a story with some choice, cool ideas to ad lib off of... then sit down and run with where ever it takes me... Wait a few days... make corrections on grammar and such... then post away!... Actually, I think my style is kinda "crazy story lady"... or "spoof-aholic". Login to Reply

Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 6:09:00 PM Books that have used outlines... Harry Potter, Catch 22, Tropic of Capricorn, The Bell Jar...authors. like Grisham and Ludlum .... Now, Some great advice.DEBBIE, READ THIS... Converts well for short stories, too. IT WILL HELP http://www.authoralden.com/2012/10/5-myths-about-writing-outlines.html Login to Reply Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/6/2014 7:38:00 PM yup if you're crazy enough to know you're crazy then you're not crazy, yup, me neither

Joe Flach Date: 3/6/2014 5:59:00 PM It is possible to architect a garden ... just say'n. Login to Reply

Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:53:00 PM Okay, to clarify, if you don't start off with a slim outline, an idea of where you are going, this is what happens. You get to chapter seven and YOU HAVE TO REWRITE CHAPTERS ONE TO SIX.. because everything, absolutely everything changed. A story should come to a resolution.. what is started, finishes... must go and eat. Back later. LOVE YA Login to Reply Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 5:00:00 PM Read below.. that could be a short story. A short story is 1000-5000 words. You could do that. I know you could Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/6/2014 4:55:00 PM don't talk about a novel its too much .. I write [it seems] character driven [not plot driven stories ie they're about me most of the time LOL] baby steps Sis baby steps

Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/6/2014 4:47:00 PM well believe you me I don't intend to write a novel when I can't distinguish the parts of a story LOL and it feels like you're yelling at me I don't learn well when someone screams at me. I ;) got a metal BLOCK I don't wanta outline NO FUN!! Login to Reply Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:49:00 PM Read below.. see if that makes sense. I WANT TO HELP

Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:45:00 PM Thank you for taking my name off of the blog! Whew! I am not that tight-assed hon. Sheesh! I build a character, create a plot and then introduce the two and go with the flow. The most amazing things happen when you get past the 15,000 words! Around the fifth chapter, the character stretches, looks at you and says, "Come on, follow me, love." and all good writers DO. Login to Reply

Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/6/2014 4:44:00 PM Sorry it still doesn't make a clear connection in my mind to me the story is what happens, it's like I have a hard time not seeing the end as the climax until someone said to me its the point from which the action winds down. I kind of get that now [kind of] Login to Reply Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:51:00 PM His bomb killed 26 people. Why does she want to save a man who killed 26 people? Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:50:00 PM So... what does she feel?When she meets him? Does she hate him at first? Does she shock herself? He is on death row... maybe you think, I will crush this guy... she surprises you. SHE FIGHTS TO SAVE HIM Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:48:00 PM Hmmm... plot... I will write a blog. For now. A quickie. Jane goes to a restaurant. The place blows up. She lives. = Plot. Jane goes to a restaurant, the place blows up, she lives, but she is filled with fear, becomes a hermit, stops trusting people... then decides to meet the bomber. In jail, face to face=story

Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:42:00 PM Apparently, lol, I really got to get that plot blog up. A vignette is a scene, one part of a story. A story provides a chance for your character to be changed in some way... for the better or for the worst. Hmmm... plot. Oh, Shakespeare is both the king of plot and character.. think Romeo and Juliet... Romeo ranting, "I curse you stars!" THAT IS PLOT DRIVEN. Fate working... I am not a big fan of plot driven fiction. Login to Reply

Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:33:00 PM Plot is what happens. Story is HOW what happens changes the character. Login to Reply

Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/6/2014 4:27:00 PM An editor wrote back and said we like more plot driven stories, I said Hmmmmm what's that LOL, I thought mine is 'character driven' LOL & it is! But thank the lord at least that IS a type of story! [not a scene/ or a vignette] Login to Reply Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:32:00 PM Nora Roberts writes a 100 page outline. (not crapping you) then she "fills in" the story with dialogue, description, edits it to the teeth. This is not the way I write.

Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/6/2014 4:25:00 PM heck I wrote this 'story' and I say this loosely because at that point I didn't even realize it wasn't a story it was a scene or a vignette, I wasn't at all aware of the terminology - so I didn't really have in the forfront of my mind the old school [grammar school] thing who what when where why and how? NOPE I didn't even have all those elements so it was a short story! [PS that was my Shaman in training 'story' that was NOW & Months ago it still has very little plot & that's what got me going on this] Login to Reply Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:30:00 PM It is about balance, hon. You are good at balance. You give balance to others. You think ahead, ponder what MAY MAY MAY happen and then listen to your character as he/she grows. As I told you, I once started to write a romance, and he became a bastard and she killed him. Does that sound like I KNEW "exactly" what was going to happen?

Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:13:00 PM ROFLMAO! Nope. I am neither. I create an outline, then let my story flow from it. As a character develops, she/he will move away from a plotline. I do not keep the plot tight, but like to have an idea where I MAY head. Of COURSE, I allow for spontaneity!!!! Are you kidding me????? No writer is an either/or. Most are BOTH. Next time you are wondering HOW I write, feel free to ask me. It's like this. Do you say. I'm going into my car and I'm going to start it up. I have no intention of turning left nor right. I'll just sit in my car and see what happens. NO! You think, hmm, I have a plan. I'll go the beach... then, you drive to the beach, but you see an antique shop. You change your mind. Then, you think, hmm, I may get to the beach tomorrow. There is an inn across the street. Maybe, I'll stay the night, there. THIS IS WHAT FICTION WRITERS DO. They have a basic idea of what their plot is, but are open to some meanderings because it is part of the creative process. I am certainly NOT an architect. My characters are fleshy enough to move me. GOTTA FLY> Login to Reply Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:27:00 PM Novels, because of their length, require a bit of forethought. We're talking 75,000 words. You don't start on a trip to Peru with not even a pair of socks, right? Some planning is necessary. Not a short story. A novel!!! Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:24:00 PM I do not write the way you are saying, it has confused me.. not angry, but damn, yes frustrated. HUH? I don't write that way! Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:23:00 PM An outline can be reworked, forgotten and edited until it is no longer what it was when first penned. This writer friend of yours sounds like the architect. Not me! Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:22:00 PM An outline is a ... hmmm... a slight idea. An outline can be left, tossed, scrunched and burned! Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/6/2014 4:21:00 PM yike don't get mad at me? I'm not sure why you assume every acts the same? I'm not a big planner. and of course the best writers can do and knowingly do both, I am not the fiction writer you are so these are new concepts to me, maybe they're new concepts to others? Cyndi Macmillan Date: 3/6/2014 4:21:00 PM AN OUTLINE IS NOT A LAW TO FOLLOW!!!! Debbie Guzzi Date: 3/6/2014 4:18:00 PM creating the outline is the definition of being an architect, you are the one who has been steering me to make an outline ;) I am going to try a bit more to do this BUT for me that takes ALL the fun out of it, it makes it WORK [certainly it makes it MUCH less pleasurable to me?]

Joyce Johnson Date: 3/6/2014 3:58:00 PM I believe myself to be the gardener. I seldom know for sure how a poem is going to end, just the basic idea of it. Joyce Login to Reply

Charlotte Puddifoot Date: 3/6/2014 3:37:00 PM I don't know but I would think I'm probably a gardener too, debbie, because I enjoy character driven novels and films as opposed to plot driven ones, and I don't like too much rigidity when writing...interesting blog :) Login to Reply

Painted Hunter Date: 3/6/2014 2:14:00 PM I'm a gardener. I seldom have any clear noton of what's going to happen with my characters. I just let things play out. Sometimes I'll begin writing about a character that I think I'm gonna like, but then end up hating his or her guts before the story is over. Login to Reply