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Recommendations for Changes/Upgrades to Poetry Soup - Tom Woody's Blog

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Recommendations for Changes/Upgrades to Poetry Soup

Blog Posted:10/7/2024 7:09:00 AM

Change! It never comes easy, but is always inevitable. Poetry Soup has been doing things pretty much the same way for a long time. For many, this is a source of comfort. Nevertheless, change not only represents forward momentum, it can also bring many benefits.

Here are some recommendations for Poetry Soup administrators and members to consider:

1. Eliminate all peer sponsored contests.

Peer sponsored contests are problematic for a number of reasons. No need to go into details, since anyone who reads blogs can quickly spot the issues. Instead, I suggest monthly challenges that are open to all poets. Each month admins can suggest a theme and/or form for the monthly challenge. Anyone who wishes to take on the challenge can do so. There is no judging. Rather, five random poems from the challenge can be featured as POTD's during the month. 

What are the benefits of this recomendation? Competition among members will all but cease. Everyone who enters will have a shot at being featured, rather than the current situation where virtually the same poets are being featured as winners in most contests. Other poetry sites have monthly (some less often, some more) challenges for their members. Time for us to catch up.

 

2. Develop a way for AI generated poems to be posted seperately and transparently. Anyone who wishes can enter an AI poem without fear of being "outed" or ostracized. AI is here to stay. Rather than fight it, we can accomodate those who wish to take advantage of this new medium and promote honesty in posting at the same time.

Benefits? No more angst in blogs on the subject, no more us vs. them. This change will demonstrate a willingness on the part of the poetry community to accept change rather than fear it.

3. Many poets enjoy posting short stories. I am one of them. I propose eliminating (or archiving) short stories that are currently posted seperately (and virtually buried) and instead expanding the character limits so short stories can be posted along with poems. In addition, it would be nice to have a weekly or monthly short story featured in some way, similar to POTD or POTW. 

Benefits? We have some great storytellers on Soup, but character limits force them to post in the short story section, which almost nobody looks at. Storytelling and poetry are intricately linked aspects of lit, thus stories deserve to be acknowledged and featured.

4. To create space for stories, I propose eliminating "poem dumping," reducing the number of poems that can be posted by any one member to one per day. That's still seven poems per week, thirty per month. In addition, reducing the number of poems posted to just one per day will allow for each one's post to potentialy get more attention, since they will not be forced down the queue so quickly. Everyone deserves an equal chance to be seen.

Benefits? See above.

Over the years admins have made some positive and really cool changes, such as adding the audio feature, youtube, etal. While some may have initially resisted these enhancements, they are now generally accepted, even appreciated by most. 

Comments are open for this blog and ANYONE'S opinion is welcome. However, personal attacks will be deleted. Please keep your comments on topic and civil. So that everyone who wants to can have a voice on these matters, I have temporarily unblocked the small handful of poets who were blocked. Fair enough? More recommendations in the future...

 

Tommy

 

 



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Date: 10/16/2024 9:36:00 AM
I like suggestion 3.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/16/2024 10:17:00 AM
I've been posting stories off and on for years, but sometimes the character limit hinders. We'll see if they are willing to expand it just a bit
Date: 10/15/2024 3:55:00 PM
Hi Tom, interesting ideas, however, it sounds like you want to start a new website that caters to AI poetry and short stories. The peer-sponsored contests (not that I have participated in any for years) are one of the neatest and most-foundational facets of this site. The best thing about it: it's not mandatory, and with the current set up, you can sponsor your own contests using the rules you just mentioned. Returning to the AI thing: I honestly don't think the purpose of this site is to copy and paste the output from computer software, so I cannot agree with welcoming AI-generated poetry. We are here to read the writings of people. Anyway, I hope you are well, happy October to you.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/15/2024 4:50:00 PM
Appreciate your sentiments. I guess as long as you don't mind being judged by someone who may have less poetic skills than you do it might be fun. It doesn't seem to apply to anything else in life I can think of but peer sponsored contests are here to stay for now anyway. I'll work within the accepted framework. As far as AI poetry I am not for it. It just seems to be an inevitability, like cell phones and Big Macs
Date: 10/9/2024 9:19:00 AM
i think the contests are a plus point on the site, and my view is that people are the problem rather than the contests themselves lol that said, 'wins' on sm poetry sites are pretty meaningless generally..i think dedicating an area of the site to AI would only serve to encourage it; we should be discouraging it as it is a form of cheating..it would be nice if people could post short stories alongside poems on their page, as hardly anyone looks at the short story section of the site..i agree the 'poem dumping' needs to stop, it's a bit selfish and pushes everyone else down the list; 2-3 per day is reasonable, and gives some leeway for those writing to contest deadlines
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/11/2024 5:01:00 PM
PS has cut poem submissions to 5 per day. Progress...
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/10/2024 12:42:00 PM
2 to 3 a day is perfect!
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/10/2024 5:21:00 AM
Oops! They flip-flopped. AI is out again. The loudest voices win out.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/9/2024 9:38:00 AM
PS 2. See the new terms and conditions re AI. It's gonna chap a few hind ends lol
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/9/2024 9:32:00 AM
PS. You do know the owners of this site have published s nearly 100% AI book called Shattered Sighs, right? Anyway, it is what it is and that's why I think balance and reasonableness make sense
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/9/2024 9:29:00 AM
Thanks again for your input. I'm not sure adding an AI in would necessarily encourage it as much as making some accommodation for the inevitable. In fact, to a small degree it's already been done (see categories on submit page). What it will do (hopefully) is encourage honest posting and stop the witch hunts.
Date: 10/9/2024 8:58:00 AM
I agree with your suggestions, Tom. Peer judged contests can cause resentment between poets. What I mean by that is I have heard some peer judges felt the ire of some poets who lost in some contests. I don't like getting N/A's either, but that's part of the "risk" when one enters a contest, and one has to maturely accept losing in some contests and move on from it. If a contest is judged anonymously by some people in PS Admin, no one should give them flak unless they want to be booted off the website. Making five poems POTD sounds like a reasonable idea. There is also the problem of AI generated poetry which causes complications, and PS Admin says it's getting more difficult to detect.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/9/2024 9:26:00 AM
Thank you for your contribution Regina
Date: 10/8/2024 9:26:00 PM
I hosted a contest back in 2017, the same year I joined PS. As a newcomer, I had little understanding of how contests were managed, so I reached out to two well-known poets on the site for guidance. I also invited them to join the judging panel, as I wanted to ensure the selection process was unbiased and fair. We each made our own selections before comparing, and were pleasantly surprised when we had made the same selection on the first and second winners. Its a great idea for Newbies running a contest, I feel. I strongly agree with No 3 and 4, btw.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/9/2024 4:54:00 AM
I've done the same in the past a few times. Thx Maria
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/8/2024 10:20:00 PM
We used this type of judging when I was at Shadow poetry before that site fell through. I was being sent the poems separately along with two other judges having no idea who those judges ever were,!! It was so much fun. The good part was that even if my favorites did not always get to win, we always chose a number one winner that all three of us loved. I know Ink Empress has another person judging with her. Also I have done it myself here with some of my contests. It's a great idea whether one is a newbie or not
Date: 10/8/2024 12:37:00 PM
I really was hoping that some of the less prominent poets would comment on this blog since the issues impact everyone to some degree or another. I've speculated there may be a number of reasons they haven't contributed: 1. They just don't read blogs 2. Fear of ridicule 3. Apathy 4. Feeling their views will be ignored anyway. In any case, I'm hoping admins will give these recommendations some consideration. Meantime, we make the best of what is available.
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/10/2024 12:44:00 PM
they don't care "as much as you do." That was what i meant to emphasize. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/9/2024 4:54:00 AM
I believe that is aptly called apathy. See above
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/8/2024 10:23:00 PM
Maybe they don't care as much as you do! It's all about dedication and putting in the work. Those who desire something enough will put in the work for it.
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Richard D Seal
Date: 10/8/2024 3:34:00 PM
So true Argo, so true
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Arlo Parker
Date: 10/8/2024 2:55:00 PM
Of the (alleged) 31000+ poets in the PS queue, about 25 regularly offer insights, constructive criticism, support. Clearly, this site is virtually silent except for some of the opinionated and breezy members. Some of us write comments to encourage universal dialogue but that seems to fail dismally. One tries; one moves on.
Date: 10/8/2024 5:53:00 AM
No 4, Most would agree that ten poems a day posted is to many. we all know it pushes poems to quickly off the list. Two, maybe three a day is more than enough and fairer to all.
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Richard D Seal
Date: 10/8/2024 7:09:00 AM
Thank you for thanking me
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 6:06:00 AM
Thank you for contributing
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 6:05:00 AM
Agreed
Date: 10/8/2024 5:47:00 AM
Moving on to no 2, A separate column for AI postings. Question, Is anyone going to boast they are posting AI poems? Point 3, Short stories, I agree they are largely ignored because people are not really interested in them. there is a section for them and nothing is stopping the writer advertising a new story has been posted using the the blog.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 4:45:00 PM
Right
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Richard D Seal
Date: 10/8/2024 3:33:00 PM
The categories disappear when the poem drops of the list, hardly an AI section, more of a back door for AI.
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Arlo Parker
Date: 10/8/2024 2:58:00 PM
Query: why does a poetry site have short stories anyway? No dog in this fight.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 1:45:00 PM
Update: Admins just added AI in the category section
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Richard D Seal
Date: 10/8/2024 7:04:00 AM
The AI section just seems a waste of time and space that TPS has no need to give succour to. Space being the important thing for more worthwhile projects like expanding the character limits for short stories.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 6:05:00 AM
My idea for creating an AI portal is actually borrowed from a suggestion Suzette made on her blog (or one of the AI blogs, I've lost count) which admins seemed open to. As for short stories, I couldn't disagree more. People love stories and while they may not get as much attention, the ones I've been able to squeeze in under character limits have received many appreciate comments
Date: 10/8/2024 5:36:00 AM
Continued, I'm fed reading how sponsors are berated here, Nothings perfect, no ones perfect but they generally do a great job of it. Doing away with the contests would greatly diminished the site. What is soup without croutons?
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/10/2024 12:46:00 PM
Croutons and cheese are the BESt part of a salad!
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/9/2024 5:51:00 AM
I hate croutons. Always toss them out. True ;)
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/8/2024 10:30:00 PM
Love your croutons line and how you think, Richard.
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/8/2024 10:28:00 PM
You are welcome . Different strokes for different folks. I finally learned the judges with bias and stopped entering their contests. But once in a while they come up with a really inspirational idea and I do the challenge just for the fun of it.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 1:22:00 PM
@Andrea thx for the honest assessment of bias in judging
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Richard D Seal
Date: 10/8/2024 6:51:00 AM
Tommy, teaching and qualified persons are a completely different animal, they are training people in specific sciences. Of course there will be those who are disappointed, we've all been there.
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/8/2024 6:28:00 AM
Everyone laments at some time or other. I only do it with a few friends and if I truly felt I was treated unfairly. But most of my N/A's I can get why. There are, in fact, a few judges, who are biased. Two or three of them even seem to have me blocked. That's life.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 6:02:00 AM
You might not feel that way if an unqualified person was your child's teacher, or an unqualified person was coach of your favorite team, or unqualified persons judged the Olympics etc etc etc. True, this is just an amateur poetry site, but I can tell you factually people are getting hurt. Some of them have lamented as to me why their poems don't place. Even some that might surprise you
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Richard D Seal
Date: 10/8/2024 5:56:00 AM
Yes they are, everything is subjective
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 5:44:00 AM
As for sponsors, they may indeed be doing "the best they can." Maybe the real question is this: Are they qualified to judge another poets' art? I like what someone quite dear to me once said, "Why would I want anyone here to judge my poetry?" I hope said poet adds their two cents to the blog
Date: 10/8/2024 5:24:00 AM
Hi Tommy, a few brief thoughts on your blog. 1. Quote, ;"Competition among members will all but cease". Anyone who has read Darwin will see the hopelessness of that statement. No offence intended on that Tommy, but it's just not the human way. I feel the contests are an important part of the soup. You only have to see how quickly they fill up, people are interested in them and I doubt entrees will want to see the go.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 5:47:00 PM
To further illustrate, imagine a student writing an essay and two English teachers evaluate it. One gives an A, the other an F. This is why, when it comes to judging and evaluating established standards must be in place. That is virtually impossible in the situation under discussion, ie, PS contests
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 4:48:00 PM
Agreed, but your argument was that contests are a learning process. If the results are mixed and confusing, what do we learn? Did we do it right, did we not? Was it competent, was it not? Am I any good, am I not? In the end I would much prefer to be judged by an objective, non-biased professional with a degree. That's in a perfect world...
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Richard D Seal
Date: 10/8/2024 2:57:00 PM
Not a problem, poetry that appeals to one reader probably doesn’t appeal to next. We all like certain types of poetry and not others. When reading contest results I often find myself preferring a poem that isn’t at the top of the list.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 1:44:00 PM
Here's the conundrum Richard: you submit the same poem to two different contest judges. In one you place on top. In the other you get an n/a. So... was your poem awesome or did it suck? Therein lies the problem
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Richard D Seal
Date: 10/8/2024 1:33:00 PM
Yes all that info is at your disposal, but you only learn about your poetry when it’s put to the test. Good or bad.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 10:19:00 AM
Entering contests is the only real learning place on this site? Richard, you've been here a long time. There is a vast catalog of poems published by the greats, as well as poetry tutorials and if you click on "poems" a vast array of themes and forms. There's even a critique forum with different levels depending on one's sensitivities
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Richard D Seal
Date: 10/8/2024 8:15:00 AM
But has some meaning in the amateur poetry world. The one we live in. Entering contests is the only real learning place on this site, where people can put their poems to the test.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 6:08:00 AM
One that has no meaning in the professional poetry world. Of course,I understand meaning is relative
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Richard D Seal
Date: 10/8/2024 5:55:00 AM
define arbitrary trophy
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 5:41:00 AM
If there's no arbitrary trophy there's nothing to compete for Richard. As far as our imperfect nature's, yep that ain't gonna change anytime soon
Date: 10/8/2024 3:37:00 AM
i would support two out of the four, and considering you and i are polar opposites on virtually everything, two out of four ain't bad lol...question: why do you sponsor contests if you disagree with them?
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Arlo Parker
Date: 10/8/2024 3:06:00 PM
Look at me, look at me, I would listen!!!! @charlotte: good to read you. @TW: do you know any viable, credible site or entity that would allow peer group folk to judge other peer group folk and be taken seriously when awarding meaningless 'prizes". Ludicrous idea....and yet, PS.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 9:14:00 AM
I know you could but who would listen?
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Charlotte Puddifoot
Date: 10/8/2024 8:38:00 AM
i could happily talk poetry, the publishing world and 'professional' comps all day long lol good blog btw, generating some interesting debate...
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 5:32:00 AM
well, Meatloaf sang that hat two outta three ain't bad, so two outta four ain't so bad either. As for your question, it's a fair one and I hope everyone reads this. I have nothing against competition, per say. I've been competitive all my life, in sports, in business etal. And I have my fair share of accolades. In the past I have argued that if we're going to have contests they should at least be "real" ones and not long after admins introduced premier contests. Those are the only type I have sponsored. That having been said, I have repeatedly stated that I don't feel anymore qualified to be a judge than anyone else. I have no degree in English or Literature, never studied poetry academically. Do you see where I'm going? Peer sponsored contests are problematic on multiple levels. I'm just suggesting an alternative that keeps the inspiration but eliminates the arbitrary judging
Date: 10/7/2024 11:22:00 PM
Dear Tomsz, i deleted my previous comment because i had to drop some other platform names while we were discussing this whole blog, but i still disagree with your points especially about contests. I will explain why, contests encourage poets to write their best and post inspired by various themes, sometimes yes we might not win in some contests because, it all depends on the mood and taste of the sponsor when judging. But let me tell you something there was an incident where a poet was inspired by a contest prompt of mine, they didnt score so high with me but they used their poem for another magazine/international contest and got selected and they soup mailed me thanking for the inspiration
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 5:35:00 AM
Thanks Inky. Inspiration is inspiration, regardless of whether it comes from you, me, admins, the news, our lives, fiction, etc etc. I want to keep the inspiration, just eliminate the arbitrary judging making it fairer for everyone. Thx for input. PS. I notice you suggest limiting to five poems per day? Some have suggested three
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Ink Empress
Date: 10/7/2024 11:27:00 PM
So what im trying to say is these individuals writing for contest prompts they do benefit anyhow. And as poets, that love writing as a form of distraction and catharsis would appreciate contests etc. thats the main reason i love soup! And i think i love the way it is already! And if a poet wants to be recognized get likes comment’s etc, they need to also put some effort that is how life works. And if admins were to host and select their features eventually admins will get blamed also for being biased so theres no winning in that! And i dont agree about ai ai should not be used in the artistic realm! And about one poem per poet maybe 5 poems per poet would do? Per day? I understand you want others to get equal exposure but we all work towards it thats how it should be.. and whatelse did i want to say? Now iv forgotten haha! But yes i respect your views, but i dont agree with the blog and i know we are good despite the differences in thoughts.
Date: 10/7/2024 10:47:00 PM
By the way, in addition to what I said below, I want to clarify something. Being a top contest winner does not make one "best poet" Hopefully, nobody is so ignorant as to think THAT. To me it simply means the poet is dedicated and writes lots of poems. I pride myself in writing a lot and doing the best I can. I didn't really even write until 2000 and I took an actual poetry course to learn all I could. As a sponsor of contests, I judge on a point system which some people may disagree with, but it's kind of fun to sponsor contests and give wins to what you like best. Why do you keep trying to take the fun out of Soup? If there are poets for whom your concerns matter, where are they all?
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/10/2024 12:48:00 PM
to Arlo. Win recognition. Without my contest wins, particularly my first big win at Soup, I'd never have been approached by anyone for having my poems made into songs, used for videos, etc. Winning recognition should matter to anyone who cares deeply about their poetry.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 4:49:00 PM
I like winning. Whether it's a contest, a card game, a ping pong match, whatever. We all do and so I can relate. And regular wins can be both addictive and ego boosters. Hard to relinquish that which feeds the need
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Arlo Parker
Date: 10/8/2024 3:08:00 PM
@TW: win what!!!!
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 9:16:00 AM
It's not that difficult. I manage to find most of my entrants. As far as Darwin, that reference is lost on me.
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/8/2024 6:22:00 AM
How can they get acknowledgement from sponsors if we never know who entered our contests? I might come upon them one day and say something to them. They can keep trying with lots of other contests. I liked Richard's statement about Darwin. That's just how it is in this world, Tommy.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 5:51:00 AM
I'm glad it's fun for you Andrea. I looked back at the last ten contests, your name, Inky's, Constance' figure prominently in the placements, so I understand where you are all coming from. It feels good to win. I get it. I remember you once told me that before PS you never stood out, never won anything and so this site means a great deal to you. My suggestions are designed to appeal to the ones who don't win contests, who don't even get an acknowledgement from the sponsor when they enter. To make it "fun" for everyone. As for where they all are, those folks only seem to frequent blogs when admins post something about the anthology. I really do hope they let their voices be heard, but I'm realistic. It might not happen, and change may never come. If not, we'll just have to make do with status quo. I won't lose any sleep over it
Date: 10/7/2024 10:28:00 PM
Hi Tommy, thanks you for sharing your thoughts on this delicate subject, I do agree with most of it, though not too sure about the AI generated poems lol, which brings me to the point of contests. As you know, I’m all about eliminating stress, and it’s only a matter of time before more poets begin to question: Is entering a poem in a contest really worth the hassle and stress? What kind of poetry detectors will our work be subjected to? Will it be judged by a flawed system that labels an entire poem as “fully AI generated” based on just three lines? I’ve been experimenting by running some of my poems through GPTZero. Most of them scored at least 90% human, which left me wondering: What did they base the remaining 10% on? Then came the real surprise—I ran one of my older poems, Yesterday, written and posted back in May 2017, and it was deemed 100% AI! I almost fell off my chair. Out of curiosity, I decided to test it further using Grammarly’s AI Detector. Thankfully, it was a bit more generous, giving it a 75% human score. That really got me thinking. Why not ask the ultimate source of wisdom—The ChatGPT bot itself? And straight from the mouth of the machine, I heard words of wisdom...
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/8/2024 10:42:00 PM
Glad you got my meaning. I think most of our contest sponsors recognize good writing when they see it. If a person enters few contests, they can't expect to feel as happy as someone who is entering lots of contests. The more you enter, the better are your chances of winning. And to Arlo I would say, winning means gaining recognition. Contests give us more inspiration and motivation to read each other's poetry.. the more we do, the better we get. I gained opportunities outside of Soup simply by my poems having "won" recognition!
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Maria Williams
Date: 10/8/2024 9:35:00 PM
I totally agree with what you say Andrea, contests are a fun thing and Sponsors should see it in the same sense. Cheaters know who they are, let their own conscience be their judge.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 5:39:00 AM
Hi Maria. Contests were an issue long before the AI problem,which has already been discussed in detail. Andrea makes an interesting comment below about judging, and how it is NOT a determinant as to how skilled or able a poet is. I couldn't agree more
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/7/2024 10:59:00 PM
Maria. I think it is too much to expect sponsors to put everything under s microscope. If a person is using AI and I am clueless since I try not to KNOW who my contestants are, they could very well get a win from me. However, the contests are subjective and are no real indicators of our talent, except in the eyes of those who are judging us. I will not worry about it. It's like a Christian professing his faith yet cheating on a commandment. The cheater knows he won by cheating, so what sense of pride can be actually feel? It's between him and his own conscience. However, judges are onto a few people now and I suppose they will be using the AI tests .
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Maria Williams
Date: 10/7/2024 10:50:00 PM
Continuation after the word classification... Repetition and Themes: If your poem explores common themes like love, loss, or hope with phrases that sound conventional, the detector might assume it’s generated because these are frequent outputs from AI when trained on large datasets of English poetry.
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Maria Williams
Date: 10/7/2024 10:44:00 PM
GPT Overview I see the image and the results from GPTZero. Your poem was classified as having a 76% probability of being AI-generated, with only 24% attributed to human writing. Let's consider a few reasons why this might have happened: Language and Structure: The poem has a clear and somewhat formulaic structure. Tools like GPTZero may misinterpret this as AI-generated since AI models often produce text with a similar, structured format. Phrasing and Word Choice: The use of phrases like “Shadows of the past” and “Spark of Hope” are poetic but might seem cliché or typical to the AI detection model, making it lean towards an AI classification.
Date: 10/7/2024 5:50:00 PM
Tommy, I don't like #1, don't like #2, AI poems are created by pushing a button, they have no place in poetry #3, maybe, #4, agree. Like many, I love poetry soup for its contests, that's where I learned forms. I love the community feel. I would hate to see it change too much, I am sure TPS are working to improve things. I think that I have become a very good judge of poetry over my many years sponsoring contests and so what if I have many winners, what possible difference in the world does that make. Constance
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/8/2024 6:24:00 AM
Just hope I made it really clear. I remember people blogging about how nobody returned their comments, and I kept thinking, "well then, why did you not come to ME? I would have left you a comment."
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/8/2024 6:08:00 AM
Your comment tells me everything I need to know Andrea. Thanks for input
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/7/2024 9:58:00 PM
I think exactly the same as you, Constance. Number 4 is the only one I totally support.
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Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/7/2024 9:49:00 PM
Hard work is how people get placed. I first came here Xmas 2009. I was a nobody. I picked 100 top poets and commented to all of them. Within a month I was top community builder. My next step was to win contests. I thought it was so awesome to see names of top poets at Soup. I wanted to be one too. I entered every single contest I could. Constance was around here at that time and was doing the same thing. I got wins but also my share of N/A's. I began to know the fair judges from the unfair and the ones who would like my style or not. I was in top 5 poets within a year of being here and it gave me a real sense of accomplishment. Poets who listen to advice of sponsors can get wins. If Soup were a government, I feel like you , Tommy, would be a socialist. Give something to everyone whether they work for it or not. I wonder why poor souls are not getting comments. Why don't they DO the WORK?? Nuff said.
Woody Avatar
Tom Woody
Date: 10/7/2024 5:53:00 PM
I think it matters to those who never get placed, never get comments. Nevertheless, thank you for your input Constance
Date: 10/7/2024 12:12:00 PM
Interesting thoughts but too often our efforts to simplify end up complicating the issue and "fair and rotational" already happens with the soup's featured poems. We're, for the most part, mature people here, and the "everybody-gets-a-trophy" vibe is overplayed and quite honestly, makes true achievement under appreciated and lost in the mire. Art will seek - like water - its own level - live with it or find another hobby. Admin is no better and perhaps less adept at judging poetry than many judges of current contests - leave it be...there are multiple options where different levels of discernment and reward are available - it is as the name says "A Soup" - perfect, let it be!
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Woody Avatar
Tom Woody
Date: 10/7/2024 4:09:00 PM
I know Arlo, I know. Change is difficult, and those with the most to lose will be the most vocal resistors. I'm hoping those with the most to gain will speak up. Time will tell
Parker Avatar
Arlo Parker
Date: 10/7/2024 4:05:00 PM
Let the prompts be the guiding light; let the participating peers judge the poems submitted. Partiality destroyed. Eliminate the "sponsors". (not wanting to offend those who love being contest curators). Revolutionary and will be debunked, ridiculed, shot down, and...the status quo will continue on ad nauseam. Last $.02. :o))
Dietrich Avatar
Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/7/2024 3:30:00 PM
speaking words of wisdom . . . let it be, let it be
Empress Avatar
Ink Empress
Date: 10/7/2024 1:55:00 PM
Well said as always dear craigsx! Thank you .
Woody Avatar
Tom Woody
Date: 10/7/2024 1:03:00 PM
I believe my suggestions enhance rather than detract from that possibility. Compare it with the difference between a (true) non-profit company and a for profit one. The former is more likely to cater to those that the latter ignore. My point? Take away the (arbitrary) trophies, level the playing field, give everyone an equal footing
Cornish Avatar
Craig Cornish
Date: 10/7/2024 12:55:00 PM
I contend, though, that there is truly no way to assess such a subjective issue and no way to eliminate either favorite friends nor favorite methods, any more than vegans versus meat eaters nor any combination of all---in short, there is no answer that suffices - Team Soup, the more I think about it, is doing it the correct way---here, are mixed neophytes and seasoned writers and all between - let all coexist and learn/parish/grow/--or simply write and be happy?!
Woody Avatar
Tom Woody
Date: 10/7/2024 12:42:00 PM
Thanks for your input Craig. Not so sure about the POTD and POTW algorithms though. Some have noticed that "popular" poets seem to get featured way more than others. That's a fact, not speculation. Remember, there are some 40k poets on this site. In any case, my idea would not eliminate those features, just supplement. I haven't suggested admins judge, only provide the prompts. Monthly, weekly, bi-weekly, whatever. Could easily be done via a blog.
Date: 10/7/2024 12:09:00 PM
@everybody: respectfully, the discussion on "other site" comparisons is mute. This is PS & PS only. I support "prompts" promulgated by/from TPS as a successor to contests. Contests are popularity junkets & serve little poetic constructive criticism/commentary. 10/day poetry posting is a waste of space & time. Who writes 10 poems every day? And yet... Limit to 3 is reasonable & reflective of a poet's work. Change is manifested by need. Artificial "inputs" simply exacerbate issues not readily in evidence. Surely exhaustive comments could be laid out, but these two issues deserve some immediate attention. Soup is good food, history shows it is nourishing & dang satisfying. ;o))
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/7/2024 4:15:00 PM
@ Andrea. Three per day is a reasonable compromise. In fact, I expect compromises to the above recommendations if/when they are ever implemented. Nobody gets everything they want in life.
Dietrich Avatar
Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/7/2024 4:10:00 PM
I too think 3 poems a day is reasonable, but I got shot down making a suggestion for limit on poems submitted a long time ago.
Woody Avatar
Tom Woody
Date: 10/7/2024 12:36:00 PM
Thank you for your insightful thoughts
Date: 10/7/2024 11:57:00 AM
I personally like doing contests. I really do feel that my Glenn Hughes contests have inspired some of the best poetry written on Soup. And to be able to be a part of that is a wonderful thing. Glenn Hughes is a master of verse and those playing off of this have produced amazing works. This would not have been possible without the contest format and the ability to sponsor such events. Just saying…
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Empress Avatar
Ink Empress
Date: 10/7/2024 1:54:00 PM
Dear robert, we know you do enjoy the poetic distraction and we do appreciate you hosting whatevr you prefer reading on! Keep doing and i hope soup will give individuals like you the opportunity to continue doing so! I might not host anymore but keep doing it. Sending you light
Woody Avatar
Tom Woody
Date: 10/7/2024 12:36:00 PM
Thank you for your contribution
Woody Avatar
Tom Woody
Date: 10/7/2024 12:35:00 PM
So, you are saying that a Glenn Hughes prompt would not have inspired anyone? Or only weak entries? One of the problems I have with peer sponsored contests is the air of superiority that some sponsors adopt. It's often evident in their contest blogs. I propose leveling the playing field
Date: 10/7/2024 10:30:00 AM
Great blog, Tommy. Here's my two cents worth: 1. Peer-sponsored contests are fantastic! They are a catalyst for creativity. I've thoroughly enjoyed the 63 contests that I've sponsored in the last 6 years, and I've enjoyed the ones that I've entered. I say keep them. :) 2. I suggest PS add "AI-Generated" as a new poetry form and require that AI poems be submitted only to contests explicitly created for that form. 3. Regarding short stories, I agree with your suggestion 100% 4. I agree that ten is too much. One seems too restrictive. Three seems to be a nice compromise. Thanks, Tommy, for your thought-provoking blog.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/7/2024 10:32:00 AM
And thank you for your suggestions Mark
Date: 10/7/2024 9:28:00 AM
Thought-provoking. It takes courage to step up and propose changes. I have to take time to think about this. I know I have learned much through competing in and sponsoring contests. Though poem dumping is not my style, one poem per day seems limiting. Perhaps three might be better. So these are just some quick thoughts, Tom.
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Tom Woody
Date: 10/7/2024 11:05:00 AM
Got it
Rodrigues Avatar
Kim Rodrigues
Date: 10/7/2024 9:53:00 AM
Tom, I replied under Ink Empress comment above.
Woody Avatar
Tom Woody
Date: 10/7/2024 9:33:00 AM
Some sites are much more limiting and a poem has to be approved before ever getting posted. Another site requires you make several comments on other poems before you can post your one poem. So I think one per day is reasonable, but I very much appreciate your thoughts Kim.

My Past Blog Posts

 
Jesse Colin Young Dead
Date Posted: 3/18/2025 2:02:00 PM
"REMEMBER YOU ARE LOVED"
Date Posted: 3/8/2025 9:58:00 AM
The Challenges of Contest Sponsorship
Date Posted: 2/2/2025 2:44:00 PM
Peace on da Soup
Date Posted: 1/19/2025 2:54:00 PM
Freedom of Speech in Poetry - Where to draw the line?
Date Posted: 11/26/2024 4:38:00 PM
Another Lovely AI Blog
Date Posted: 11/19/2024 1:50:00 PM
Recommendations for Changes/Upgrades to Poetry Soup
Date Posted: 10/7/2024 7:09:00 AM
Paranoia and the Mob Mentality
Date Posted: 10/5/2024 10:03:00 AM
Why did you join Poetry Soup?
Date Posted: 6/23/2024 1:43:00 PM
Revisiting AI Poetry
Date Posted: 6/1/2024 5:41:00 AM
WHEN IS DIALOGUE APPROPRIATE?
Date Posted: 2/25/2024 2:29:00 PM
The Social Media Conundrum
Date Posted: 12/24/2023 2:59:00 PM
By Way of Clarification...
Date Posted: 11/18/2023 3:21:00 PM
AI Poetry - Much Ado About Nothing
Date Posted: 10/8/2023 11:33:00 AM
Welcome Poets Old and New!
Date Posted: 9/19/2023 4:59:00 PM
Thank You
Date Posted: 7/29/2023 4:40:00 PM

My Recent Poems

Date PostedPoemTitleFormCategories
4/25/2025 A Mammoth Mistake? Narrativeanimal,
4/17/2025 The Eternal Question: God, No God, Maybe God Haibunappreciation,beauty,creat
4/6/2025 Microplastic Brain Haibunaddiction,humor,
3/27/2025 Sunset Silhouette Haikubeautiful,
3/24/2025 Last Dance Amid The Stars Haibunadventure,loss,
3/18/2025 1984 - The End of Big Brother Narrativeanxiety,fear,hope,
3/10/2025 When You Need A Friend Sonnetfriendship,
3/3/2025 MONSTER I do not know?depression,
2/24/2025 Labyrinth of Loneliness Sonnetloneliness,
2/12/2025 Sky of Fireflies Haibunwar,
1/30/2025 Time Stops For No One Free verseage,destiny,
1/15/2025 Faustian Fraud Narrativebetrayal,desire,
12/29/2024 Manifesto Narrativejudgement,
12/18/2024 Strayed Sheep Narrativeanimal,humor,
11/9/2024 Time Traveler - A Message for Humanity Prose Poetrysymbolism,
10/31/2024 The Spirit, The Water and The Blood Lyricforgiveness,hope,murder,
10/9/2024 Detente Sonnetangst,peace,
10/1/2024 Us Rispettoromantic love,
9/25/2024 Witcher County Road Haibunchild abuse,fear,religion
9/16/2024 The Persons That We Are Sonnetconflict,
9/6/2024 Wizards of Destruction Lyricjudgement,religion,
8/29/2024 Mary Rogers - Now a Song Lyricabuse,addiction,hope,
8/18/2024 I Am FEAR Quintain (Sicilian)fear,
8/13/2024 Star Trek - The Necessary Things Otherscience fiction,
8/4/2024 Perfection Rhymehope,
7/26/2024 I Found Someone To Love Today Pantoumanti bullying,
7/21/2024 Dark Underbelly Alliterationevil,forgiveness,
7/16/2024 Poetry Soup Acrosticchange,
7/11/2024 Jack and Jill - The True Story Narrativehumor,
7/8/2024 the little things Haibunappreciation,
7/4/2024 Where Do We Come From Sonnetcreation,
6/28/2024 Island Girl Free versetribute,
6/18/2024 Requiem for Elmer Narrativehumor,murder,
6/5/2024 To The Dad I Once Knew Elegy1st grade,death,father,
6/2/2024 Iron Man Haibunfear,
5/12/2024 Romantic Rendezvous Alliterationromantic love,
5/5/2024 Portal - part 2 Haibunfantasy,suicide,
5/4/2024 Portal - part 1 Haibunfantasy,suicide,
4/24/2024 Surreality Free verseconfusion,
4/13/2024 Rainbows on the Moon Rispettodeath,
4/2/2024 Urban Legend Rhymemurder,mystery,
3/24/2024 Leper Messiah Haibunjesus,remember,
3/15/2024 Savage Garden Rhymeallusion,society,
3/9/2024 The Tempest In Your Heart Prose Poetryangst,missing you,
3/1/2024 Kensington Avenue Haibunemotions,
2/27/2024 The Ghost of Winston Smith Narrativephilosophy,
2/18/2024 Hold Your Head High Sonnetappreciation,friendship,
2/11/2024 Seafood Sundays Narrativehumor,
2/4/2024 The Minstrel of Moscow Haibunjudgement,
1/27/2024 Debacle Rhymeconfusion,evil,history,
1/14/2024 With My Dying Breath Prose Poetryanxiety,fear,
1/7/2024 Life is a Song Narrativeappreciation,music,romant
1/4/2024 This I Believe Haibunfuture,hope,
12/30/2023 Helter Skelter Rhymeconfusion,corruption,fear
12/23/2023 Bill and Ted's Excellent Conversation - A Message for 2024 Narrativehope,love,
12/16/2023 Golgotha Haibundeath,faith,
12/10/2023 Photograph Free versedesire,fantasy,
12/6/2023 Mary Rogers Lyricmental illness,
12/3/2023 Cherished is the Night Sonnetappreciation,health,love,
11/30/2023 Soar Senryudream,
11/26/2023 To Be Where She Is Haibundeath,sad,
11/21/2023 The Poe Rhymehumor,
11/19/2023 The Final Danse Macabre Haibunbible,judgement,
11/16/2023 Why I Don't Celebrate Christmas - Fiction Narrativechristian,christmas,
11/14/2023 She's a Fine Girl Senryuappreciation,friendship,
11/12/2023 Conception's Glory Monokumiracle,
10/12/2023 Winds of Change Senryuchange,peace,
10/7/2023 Conscious Uncoupling Haibundivorce,memory,
10/4/2023 Bono and Me Haibunlove,music,
10/1/2023 Let Me Be the One Versefriend,
9/28/2023 Apocalypse Now Haibunanxiety,fear,
9/25/2023 Superstar Haibunaddiction,anxiety,celebri
9/22/2023 Cosmic Siren Sonnetdesire,longing,
9/20/2023 Emergent Free versebeauty,celebration,
9/16/2023 Song of the Poet Lyriclove,song,
9/14/2023 The Gift Proseallegory,holiday,hope,
9/10/2023 I Dream Poetry Free versedream,poetry,
9/7/2023 Poe's Untimely Demise Rhymehorror,
9/4/2023 Persona Non Grata Free verselonging,perspective,unive
9/1/2023 Sweet Summer Night Haibunromantic love,vacation,
8/30/2023 Do We Matter Narrativeinspirational,
8/27/2023 My Date With Taylor Swift Narrativehumor,
8/24/2023 Mountain Serenade Haibunnature,romantic love,
8/21/2023 Dreamscape Lover Free versedesire,dream,romance,
8/18/2023 Ludicrous Lucidity Haibunaddiction,loss,solitude,
8/15/2023 Ignis Fatuus Free versedestiny,hope,
8/12/2023 Gaslight Me Prose Poetrylost love,
8/10/2023 Abyss Sonnetangst,
8/7/2023 A Day In the Life Haibunpeace,romantic love,
8/2/2023 Sapiophile Desire Listappreciation,
7/30/2023 The Fly Proseangst,humor,
7/28/2023 Rebirth Me Prose Poetryhope,mental illness,
7/26/2023 What Inspires You Listinspiration,
7/22/2023 Why I Became a Poet Biohow i feel,
7/18/2023 Swim Haibunconfusion,desire,

My Photos


Fav Poems

PoemTitleFormCategories
Blood Moon Free versefantasy,love,sensual,
Thank You, God Pantoumgod,
Wave and Shore Free verselove,sea,
Love Said Collab With the Silent One - POTD Free versededication,feelings,love,
Red Moon Rising Rhymeanalogy,symbolism,
A Lavender In Your Grey Free verseemotions,
Tree Personificationdestiny,earth,loss,silenc
The Sky She Sees Is Beautiful Light Versehow i feel,
Nadir Free versedark,
My Faraway Friend Sonnetfriendship,missing you,
Faith Classicismchild,food,god,hope,mirac
The Extraordinary Consequence of Being Free verseappreciation,beautiful,be
A Plentiful Harvest Free versefarm,spring,work,
The Eternal Question: God, No God, Maybe God Didacticbible,christian,
Blinded By Life and Praying To Truly See Free verseart,surreal,vanity,vision
Twisted tale of Humpty Dumpty Prosedark,
Pause My Poetry Free verseangst,poetry,society,
A Lazy Man S Prophecy Free verseabuse,bullying,change,con
Steppin' Out Rhymebutterfly,farewell,summer
Candle Celebration Free versecelebration,
- The Right To Smell - Free versefate,life,sad,
Heart Spilling Blood Free verseanalogy,anger,bereavement
The Kissing Gate Coupletdesire,friendship,love,
Descartes' Rule of Signs Free versegod,humanity,life,math,
Like Zephyr Breeze Free verseabsence,
Forsaken Flower Versedeep,
selfless syllables Alliterationdedication,encouraging,fr
Moonlight on Meadows Sonnetdream,
Preaching Peace Verseappreciation,beautiful,ja
Sand, Sun-Kissed and Sandals Rhymelonging,romance,seasons,s
Arctic Afterglow Free versedream,emotions,first love
Wild Roots of September Free versefarm,life,nature,nostalgi
I Spied A Valley Low-POTD Free verseanimal,funeral,people,
The Beauty of Writing Free verseliterature,
In tune Free verseallusion,appreciation,cry
I kissed the Moon Nonetmoon,
Maria Williams Rhymebest friend,
T Woodys Flower Free verseextended metaphor,
I go Insane Free verseabsence,gothic,
A Chasmal Moment Of Grace Free verseappreciation,
Done With Poetry Imagismdark,
The man upstairs Free verseemotions,loneliness,missi
Art of Forgiveness Free verseforgiveness,
Roots and Dandelion Dreams: A Mother's Heart Ekphrasisheart,love,mothers day,na
Pawn to Silence Free verseengland,love,
Blueberry Skies Rhymeheartbreak,
White As Snow Free verseforgiveness,snow,youth,
NOTHING LESS - NOTHING MORE - POTD Rhymedeep,emotions,inspiration
Misty Blues Quatrainlost love,solitude,
Thank you, Mary Lyricdedication,hope,inspirati
FANTASTIC BEASTS - Dinosaurs - Collab with Tom Woody, spoken by Sam Scott and Sara A Epicadventure,fantasy,fate,na
Autumn Side Of September Free verseage,beauty,birth,introspe
Why did I become a poet Rhymehow i feel,
THE LAST GOODBYE Narrativedeath,inspirational,loss,
Final Farewell Free versedestiny,
Burnt Orange POTD Haikubeautiful,bird,color,eve,
Will I Find You in the End Rhymegod,
I couldn't talk about it so I wrote a poem Free verseabuse,betrayal,bible,fait
Smuggler's Boat Free verseboat,death,hope,journey,l
And what of Poetry Free versepoetry,words,
Slab City Free versesociety,time,
Tears in Vacant Rooms Free verseanalogy,death,fear,
The Storm Free versestorm,
City Frozen Cold Elegiac Lyriccity,father son,home,hope
The Father you do not Know Rhymefather,father daughter,fa
superficial solace Free verseangst,

Fav Poets

PoetCountry 
Charmaine Chircop Malta Flag Malta Read
Brandy Nicole United States Flag United States Read
Maria Williams Australia Flag Australia Read
Besma Riabi Dziri Tunisia Flag Tunisia Read
Crystol Woods United States Flag United States Read
Tonye George Nigeria Flag Nigeria Read
Terrell Martin United States Flag United States Read
Daniel Henry Rodgers United States Flag United States Read
Evelyn Judy Buehler United States Flag United States Read
I Am Anaya United States Flag United States Read
Christina Bowring United Kingdom Flag United Kingdom Read
Ink Empress Maldives Flag Maldives Read
Silent One United Kingdom Flag United Kingdom Read
Laura Leiser United States Flag United States Read

Book: Reflection on the Important Things