ENGLISH AS A SECOND LANGUAGE - nette onclaud's Blog

About nette onclaud
(Show Details...)
Bloggers Photo


 

BIO SKETCHES:

Location: north node of pisces in past lives

Characteristics: moon-angel, summer gypsy

Philosophy: in life and love, don’t settle for less than 100%

Greatest sin: can do nothing for a day and stay in the “ now”

Education: a student of life on earth and outbound

Style: blend of classic and eclectic

Strengths and weaknesses: shadows chasing light; light chasing shadows

Luxuries:  inner spirit dancer, theater actress, educator, painter, poet, interior designer

Addictions: diet coke, rare collections, travels around the world

Unforgettable scene: pathways of Prague in Czechoslovakia around dusk

Claim to fame: the world's worst typist


ENGLISH AS A SECOND LANGUAGE


Blog Posted:7/31/2012 12:33:00 PM


hello dear soupers!...i have read tons of

fascinating  works here with seamless poetic flow, content, and tonality from  members whose  English is not  their first language. 


we know that our colleagues come from different countries--- randomly Turkey, Norway, Africa, Indonesia --- and grammar or spelling may be a bit off...considering the merit of their poems in terms of substance  and form, i am wondering if we dismiss their entries since proper  use language is not perfect?...or do we appreciate, honor their passion for poetry?


any thoughts on this matter?




huggs to all!



Please Login
 
  1. Date: 8/6/2012 9:47:00 AM
    thanks suzette for your valuable feedback... good idea to run a contest for those who use english as a second language... methinks there could be a margin for slight errors without lowering standards of good poetry!..:) hugggs!

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/2/2012 6:16:00 AM
    On syllable counts: In my book, eg "stress" has one syllable; "stressed" still one syllable (you do not say: stress-ed); but "stresses" two syllables or Onji (when counting in Haiku poetry). Similarly, eg "alcohol" counts two syllables in the English language, because you do not pronounce the "h" and "conspicuous" counts four syllables, because the "u" and "ou" are pronounced separately when spoken. Some clarity would be appreciated. It would be unkind to disqualify a poem, because we do not agree on these matters.

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/2/2012 6:06:00 AM
    Nette, I think that by upholding a uniform standard, would give all poets the impetus to grow and to strive to improve. By lowering the boom, we are detracting from those who have won and the future winners. Maybe a separate category should we considered for 2nd language poets? Furthermore, I find it very confusing when there is more than one 1st place winner and this is followed by a string of 2nd, 3rd, etc place winners. Surely, if there are for eg 2 1st place winners, then the next place should be 3rd place, followed by 4th place etc.

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/1/2012 12:36:00 PM
    PARDON MY CURIOSITY, do we become more strict with is poets whose first language is english??..hmmm

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/1/2012 12:32:00 PM
    SUZETTE: so true on all counts... poems of chilean pablo neruda and others have been translated into english... huggs!

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/1/2012 12:24:00 PM
    CYN: we are on the same page... if a poem cannot assault, invigorate or rip my senses, it is as good as dead...more than heart, a poem has to have SOUL and ESSENCE..other considerations have been discussed though i'll back for dessert later... :) huggs!

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/1/2012 12:14:00 PM
    MANDY: i use the reliable dictionary online to make sure spelling is right... huggs

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/1/2012 12:12:00 PM
    ANDIE: i have watched how people like olu, jag,and others have developed their style and proper use of grammar through time.. i hail those who push the envelope to learn their craft,,,it is no wonder i ask for poets' names in my contests so i could reach out to them.. yes, those who enter should be responsible enough to read blogs for updates...thanks and huggs!

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/1/2012 12:01:00 PM
    NANS, soul sistah...poetry in any language cannot be sloppy, right!..RUBEN: you are doing very well, so should i still be gentle with you?..lol..:) huggs!

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/1/2012 11:37:00 AM
    CRAIG and JOYCE: insightful thoughts. ..what matters is the value of a poem.. i think we would somehow know if a poet (using english as second language) has something worthwhile to say... huggs!

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/1/2012 11:25:00 AM
    SUZETTE: yes, i agree.. but if we use english style( like flavour) or american( like flavor), the spelling based on chosen style should be consistent(traveler, traveller)... you are well versed in language and it is your second one?..:) thanks and huggs!..DAVID: i have considered some poets whose grammar is slighty incorrect in favor of the true langauge, mood and tonality of a poem... :) hugggs!

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/1/2012 11:12:00 AM
    let me in here, lol... TPS can't make me comment on blogs..MiCHAEL: small errors can be dismissed as long as the poem , as a whole, is meaningful.. how nice your wife is an english teacher!,,:) huggs!

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/1/2012 11:01:00 AM
    The poet who I admire: ENLIGHTENMENT The moon’s reflection in water, neither does it make the moon wet, nor does it water break. Such for Dogen is enlightenment. Though the moon’s light envelops the infinite expanse of the sky, it can be as easily reflected in just one dewdrop on the grass. (Yayati)

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/1/2012 10:39:00 AM
    Apropos Cyndi"s comment: Each has his/her own "voice". I was once asked to "translate" a script of mine into American English - it would have been like translating Keats into Oscar Wilde. Maybe we are loosing sight of the fact that a poem is judged by one person and that his/her taste may not coincide with yours. So, write on and express yourself - whether you win or not. Poetry (to me) is a platform to express myself, when mere prose will not fit the bill. EG If I had to include words and concepts such as indunas, sangomas, braaivleis (all words which you will not find in your spell check, but are part of my vocab., etc) most would run to the hills. I would like to learn about other cultures through their poetry and not have them be submitted to what we perceive to be acceptable topics. Form is a different thing all together. I am a great admirer of a well known Indian poet, Dr Madan Gandhi. His work is peppered with typical regional concepts. Peace and Love to all :-)

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/1/2012 10:16:00 AM
    PS I just had a comment on my Swinging on a Star poem questioning my spelling (if I understood it correctly). I (and spell check) didn't see any spelling mistake(s). Would you please be so kind as to look it over and comment on the poem. Thank you for your time and assistance. Love, Suzette

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/1/2012 8:32:00 AM
    Hey hon, GREAT BLOG! Don't be surprised if I reflect on this subject in another blog, as you've truly inspired me! The real question here is what is good poetry, isn't it? I believe that good poetry captures the poet's individual style and voice, transcends mere language, captures a mood and message, provides the reader with an emotional and/or cognitive impact that feels like a one-two knock out punch, uses words in a unique way that may or may not break recognized grammar rules and ---furthermore--- is honest to the point of almost being too open, too REAL! If you are speaking of contests, I judge based on this criteria and the flow of a poem. If spelling is off, if grammar isn't exact, if punctuation is hit and miss, I will most likely overlook these things if the poem HAS A HEART. A poem SHOULD reflect the poet's own landscape, his vernicular, his... environment? Robbie Burns sounding like Keats would defeat his poem's ... integrity?... A poet from the projects is a poet, too! AMEN

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 8/1/2012 7:28:00 AM
    I think the language spelling should be overlooked I mean there are so many differences just between American and English and the dictionary keeps trying to correct mine, so power to those that enter when English is not their first language I have enough difficulty and it is mine xx

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 7/31/2012 9:48:00 PM
    By the way, while I am here. I've been reading the entries in my last contest finally. Several of them have poor grammar and incorrect syllable count. Sadly, the ones who need to know this are the ones who do not see our blog comments and they probably are completely mystified when their poems are not chosen after they make the effort to do them. However, some of them are not putting any effort. And if they are, I cannot see it!

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 7/31/2012 9:46:00 PM
    I can testify that Ruben may not be a native English speaker, but he makes an effort and he got first place long ago in one of my first contests here at soup.KUDOS to him. I appreciate the second language learner who truly is trying. Kashinath is another example of such a poet. He wins many contests and he makes a great effort to learn forms and to be "spot on" with everything he tries. I am with craig on this one. We can be a bit lenient with some of those that struggle, but only to a point. My two cents worth!

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 7/31/2012 9:10:00 PM
    Well...if you didnt notice it yet...: ) ...English IS my second language and Im still learning! : ) I always check my spelling...but my grammar...sometimes...: P Every poem I write is a real challenge...SO, be gentle when judging my entries! LOL! Have a nice night. Ruben.

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 7/31/2012 8:15:00 PM
    Hey, dig the pic!!! Where's that from? I only know one language and I'm perfectly adept at butchering it. My parents taught me the "Queen's English" and expected me to use it. I taught my kids the "Queen's English" and told them it could come in handy among certain audiences... and I also acknowledged to them that the F word can be more effective in other crowds. As far as how I judge my 'tests.... I recognize that I have cultural conditioning, but I try to get to the meat of the po and not worry much about spelling or grammar... unless it looks sloppy. My two cents worth, love ya sis. You just ROCK!! Namaste~N

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 7/31/2012 4:59:00 PM
    I would never fault a poem for spelling or grammatical errors when English is the poet's second language, but I am disturbed by poor spelling and errors from any of those of us who's learned English as our first language. I am so proud of you if you are struggling to write in English and it is not your native tongue. I know fully well that I couldn't write in another language. Love, Joyce

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 7/31/2012 3:13:00 PM
    Nette, if I see a slight spelling mistake and it is an exceptional piece of poetry then I will overlook it, it is an International site so we have to expect and except a few mistakes...just my 50 pence worth. Language will always evolve and we need to go with the flow sometimes...

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 7/31/2012 3:07:00 PM
    Is This Poetry? 4 U 2 B in2 poetry Y Do U have 2 b able 2 write 1 verse or 2 that 1 or 2 can C the words And know how 2 B understood. U C Y if 1 is going 2 write, and B C’n 2 b trying, I for 1 will B Dlighted. © 31/7/2012

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 7/31/2012 2:19:00 PM
    I agree with Michael (and his wife). Any correction should be viewed in the spirit in which it is made. We are here to learn as well as to entertain. BTW English is my second language and to top it all, I'm mildly dyslexic - something which had hamstrung me and silenced me for many years. Thank goodness for spell check. Getting back to what you are asking: Yes, if we can submit an entry for a contest, we have access to a computer to do a spell check and grammar check. One of the winners in a recent contest had made spelling mistakes and a grammar mistake..... So, this does not seem to be the reason why someone had not won through to the finals. I do have a good vocabulary and some words would not be recognized by the spell check. Or, if someone does not know the full meaning of a word such as "climes" (for eg), the entry might be discarded in favor (spelled "favour" in South Africa) of poems with more traditional words. What I do object to is a poem where the entrant writes in text format: B4 i upset U 2moro ...:-) I write as I speak and try to adapt my language to suit the subject. This is just my take on the subject. Please feel free to differ. Yes, I would welcome corrections/queries. Love, Suzette

    Login to Reply
  1. Date: 7/31/2012 1:51:00 PM
    I believe if dismiss an entry it would be cause they didn't follow guide lines or another entry was better. We sometimes don't want to dismiss entries but that is why it's called a CONTEST. I speak for myself when I say I came to this site because I appreciate poetry. English is a second language for my wife and she is a American school teacher. She is very adamant in that she wants to be corrected every time she makes a mistake. She says it's the only way to learn faster.

    Login to Reply

My Past Blog Posts

 
PRAYERS FOR THE PASSING OF VICTOR BUHAGIAR'S WIFE
Date Posted: 2/22/2017 12:42:00 PM
SHARE YOUR FAVORITE DISH!
Date Posted: 10/15/2016 4:33:00 AM
I WAS IN SAN FRANCISCO...ANY SOUPER FROM THAT AREA?
Date Posted: 9/11/2016 7:24:00 PM
ARE YOU ALSO HAVING TECH ERRORS HERE?
Date Posted: 6/6/2016 11:45:00 AM
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DEAR BROKEN WINGS !
Date Posted: 1/29/2016 12:24:00 PM
WITH ONLY A FEW HOURS ON SOUP...
Date Posted: 12/16/2015 2:45:00 PM
WHAT MAKES US BLOCK MEMBERS FROM OUR PAGES?
Date Posted: 11/22/2015 11:29:00 PM
TOO MANY ARE CHANGING USERNAMES?
Date Posted: 9/13/2015 12:27:00 PM
YOUR FIRST POETRY CORNER
Date Posted: 8/29/2015 6:13:00 PM
"THERE ARE CEMETERIES THAT ARE LONELY"
Date Posted: 6/12/2015 4:02:00 AM
FOUR LINES CONTEST-- REAL THING NOW POSTED! AND A GAME..
Date Posted: 6/6/2015 12:59:00 PM
LET'S TAKE THIS MUSICAL BREAK!
Date Posted: 5/8/2015 2:21:00 PM
WATING FOR SO LONG...
Date Posted: 3/26/2015 2:56:00 PM
PRAYERS FOR SARA KENDRICK
Date Posted: 9/13/2014 3:41:00 PM
SYLLABLE COUNT
Date Posted: 7/14/2014 12:18:00 PM
GET WELL WISHES FOR DAVE WOOD!
Date Posted: 5/13/2014 4:21:00 PM
GUESS WHO I MET PERSONALLY FROM SOUP TODAY?..YEAHH!
Date Posted: 5/3/2014 5:38:00 AM
TAKING A BREAK
Date Posted: 4/23/2014 2:48:00 PM
**A SLIGHT ERROR RE MY CONTEST! **
Date Posted: 4/17/2014 1:00:00 PM
ON JUDGING WINNING POEMS
Date Posted: 4/7/2014 3:33:00 PM
WHATT.. 28 CONTESTS ON SOUP!
Date Posted: 3/10/2014 11:43:00 AM
ADVERTISEMENTS ??
Date Posted: 3/5/2014 12:11:00 PM
WHERE WERE YOU LAST NIGHT?
Date Posted: 2/9/2014 3:02:00 AM
TERMS OF ENDEARMENT
Date Posted: 2/4/2014 9:00:00 AM
THE PROBLEM WITH SYLLABLE COUNT
Date Posted: 1/23/2014 7:00:00 AM

My Recent Poems

Date PostedPoemTitleFormCategories
3/27/2017 BOREALIS IN JADE Juejubeauty,green,light,
3/25/2017 IN UNKNOWN CORNERS Verseangst,child,poverty,
3/23/2017 NO ONE LISTENED Versehow i feel,identity,lonel
3/21/2017 ALTHOUGH HE'S NEAR Rhymelonging,love,pain,
3/20/2017 FROM PUPPY CRUSH TO REAL LOVE Quatraindevotion,fun,time,
3/19/2017 LET IT BE SPRINGTIME Quatrainbeautiful,joy,spring,
3/13/2017 DREAM ISLAND Sonnetinspiration,places,
3/12/2017 LIKE DYING LEAVES Free verseabsence,love,
3/10/2017 KINDRED Versefamily,love,together,
3/9/2017 WILD IS THE WIND Versehowl,sound,wind,
3/8/2017 RULE THE WORLD Free versepeace,world,
3/7/2017 OUT OF THE WOODS Narrativechildren,fear,recovery fr
3/6/2017 APRIL Personificationapril,woman,
3/6/2017 FISHERMEN'S RIVER Versefishing,life,river,
3/5/2017 JACKAL Verseanimal,strength,
3/3/2017 WHAT THE EYE SEES THE HEART CANNOT FORGET Dramatic Versedeath,memory,mystery,peac
3/2/2017 LILACS' IMMORTAL BEAUTY Iambic Pentameterflower,spring,
3/1/2017 JUNK Light Poetryfunny,
2/27/2017 WHAT CANNOT KILL ME Dramatic Versecourage,passion,writing,
2/26/2017 IDYLLIC Versenature,peace,
2/24/2017 CHANGED BY DAY'S INCIDENT Verseinspiration,people,
2/22/2017 FRAMED MOMENTS Dramatic Verseintrospection,remembrance
2/20/2017 night's Sexyku Haikudesire,sexy,
2/20/2017 HAMMOCK Versehappiness,space,
2/17/2017 BITS OF DELICACIES Light Poetryfruit,
2/16/2017 HIDDEN LIES Dramatic Versebetrayal,moving on,
2/15/2017 NEW WORLD Blank versehope,image,love hurts,
2/15/2017 FINDING A NEW HAVEN Haibunhome,hope,nostalgia,
2/12/2017 TEARS FROM A CLOWN Free verseirony,loss,
2/11/2017 HEART--BREAKER Free verseangst,love hurts,
2/10/2017 ANONYMITY IN THE SUBWAY Narrativeloneliness,travel,
2/9/2017 STRING-MOVEMENTS Versemusic,nostalgia,
2/7/2017 SPIRIT OF A DOVE Free versebird,peace,
2/6/2017 FROM THIS LAMENT Ghazalbereavement,child,lonelin
2/6/2017 DRAGON SLAYER Narrativefantasy,
2/4/2017 WHAT LOVE IS Free verselove,mystery,
2/2/2017 BROTHERHOOD'S ONE VOICE Free versedevotion,freedom,humanity
1/31/2017 SPEAKING OF LOVE Light Poetryappreciation,love,valenti
1/30/2017 IT'S TOO EARLY TO WRITE POETRY Imagismadventure,mystery,writing
1/29/2017 MIXING FLAVORS OF SOUP Light Poetryfood,poetry,
1/28/2017 GIFTS FROM THE HEART Verseheart,valentines day,
1/27/2017 FEATHERS IN TRANSIT Fibonaccibird,seasons,
1/27/2017 REALITY OF MODERN TIMES Dramatic monologuecorruption,humanity,life,
1/26/2017 SERIOUSLY BEWILDERED Light Poetrydesire,mystery,
1/24/2017 FINAL DANCE Rhymedance,farewell,
1/23/2017 TWILIGHT Free verseanalogy,night,youth,
1/21/2017 PURE ENCHANTMENT Imagismdream,fairy,
1/19/2017 SLEEPTALKING Quatrainpeace,sleep,
1/18/2017 SHUTTING OFF Dramatic Verseangst,identity,image,
1/17/2017 FRIDAY'S MERRIMENT Monorhymefriendship,happiness,
1/17/2017 CHOOSING DIGNITY Dramatic Verseabuse,freedom,integrity,
1/16/2017 ROSY MOMENTS Dodoitsudevotion,passion,valentin
1/15/2017 CALL MY NAME Light Poetryi am,name,
1/14/2017 MASTER'S FEATHERED QUILL Shapewords,write,
1/11/2017 after long snowdrift Haikuadventure,snow,
1/10/2017 BUTTERFLIES OF BEAUTY Light Poetrybeauty,butterfly,self,
1/8/2017 CHRISTMAS DAY Coupletchild,christmas,faith,
1/7/2017 CUPID PULLS BACK THE BOW Quintain (English)celebration,love,
1/6/2017 GLAZED LULL FROM HEAVEN Monorhymecare,heaven,trust,
1/5/2017 END OF THE ROAD Quatrainlost,love,
1/4/2017 LIFE'S INSPIRATIONS Villanellegrandparents,love,
1/3/2017 GRASPING WHAT'S HERE AND NOW Carpe Diemconfusion,recovery from,
12/30/2016 PULSE OF MANILA Sonnetbeautiful,character,place
12/29/2016 GREETING 2017 Rhymedevotion,new year,
12/28/2016 ANYTHING GOES ON A SUNDAY Free verseday,peace,silence,
12/27/2016 SNOWMAN Rhymesnow,winter,
12/26/2016 dancing hooves Haikudance,horse,people,
12/25/2016 DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS Free versechristmas,day,
12/23/2016 CHAMPAGNE Versecelebration,joy,new year,
12/21/2016 GHOSTLY LOVE Blank verseblessing,death,feelings,
12/18/2016 FLAMING SPOON OF MOON Versekiss,moon,
12/17/2016 COURAGE AMIDST DEMISE Pantoumcourage,death,
12/16/2016 DREAMS FROM PAPER AIRPLANES Quatrainabsence,flying,for him,
12/15/2016 MORCON Versechristmas,food,
12/14/2016 TRUE GIFT OF CHRISTMAS Coupletblessing,christmas,
12/13/2016 MY FONDEST MEMORY Prose Poetryappreciation,memory,
12/12/2016 IF I WERE AN ELEPHANT Dramatic monologueanimal,
12/11/2016 RIVERSONG Free versepeace,river,song,
12/9/2016 POINT OF NO RETURN Quintain (English)devotion,faith,
12/9/2016 EACH DAY HAS A STORY Imagismimage,life,writing,
12/7/2016 DUPLEX Verseanger,betrayal,dark,
12/6/2016 DIFFERENT COFFEE MOMENT Imagismdrink,morning,
12/5/2016 COME AND FIND ME IN MY SOLITUDE Light Poetrysolitude,
12/4/2016 WINTER ALCHEMY Free versewinter,
11/30/2016 GONDOLA Verseboat,journey,romance,
11/29/2016 ONE-SIDED LOVE Dramatic Versefarewell,love,sad love,
11/27/2016 INTO A DAYDREAM Narrativedream,imagery,
11/25/2016 LIBERATED Verseidentity,love,self,
11/24/2016 FAULT LINE Rhymefriend,pride,sorry,
11/23/2016 AFTER THE ELECTION Light Poetryjourney,self,
11/22/2016 FROM THEN TO BEYOND Imagismappreciation,nature,time,
11/21/2016 FAREWELL, NOVEMBER TREES Sonnetautumn,goodbye,tree,
11/20/2016 HUES OF PASSION Dramatic Verseart,passion,
11/19/2016 RIVER'S LIFE Versebereavement,memory,water,
11/18/2016 FOR CB--VICTOR BUHAGIAR Free verseinspirational,poets,tribu
11/17/2016 LOWLIFE FREAK Prose Poetryangst,recovery from,self,
11/15/2016 NECTAR OF COMPASSION Free versecare,conflict,introspecti
11/14/2016 STORY-TELLING WITH THE MOON Light Poetrybooks,moon,myth,
11/13/2016 NAKED HEART Imagismwoman,
11/12/2016 SECRET REALM Blank versejoy,places,

My Photos


photo

ps_DSCN4546_1.jpg

Fav Poems

PoemTitleFormCategories
Sonata Free versefriendship,inspirational,
A Sonnet for my Father on His Birthday Sonnetbirthday,father daughter,
As Seasons Pass Free versepoetry,

Fav Poets

PoetCountry 
Lazy dog Smith Australia Flag Australia Read
Andrea Dietrich United States Flag United States Read
Silent One United Kingdom Flag United Kingdom Read
Charmaine Chircop Malta Flag Malta Read
Suzanne Delaney United States Flag United States Read
Leon Datu United States Flag United States Read
rob carmack United States Flag United States Read
Donna Jones United States Flag United States Read
Laura Loo United States Flag United States Read
Cyndi MacMillan Canada Flag Canada Read
david mohn United States Flag United States Read
Frederic Parker United States Flag United States Read
Kelly Deschler United States Flag United States Read
James Fraser United Kingdom Flag United Kingdom Read
Debbie Guzzi United States Flag United States Read
Olive Eloisa Guillermo - Fraser Philippines Flag Philippines Read
Sunshine Smile Norway Flag Norway Read
Monterey Sirak United States Flag United States Read
Paul Callus Malta Flag Malta Read
Broken Wings Canada Flag Canada Read
kash poet India Flag India Read
Mystic Rose Canada Flag Canada Read
Connie Marcum Wong United States Flag United States Read
Carrie Richards United States Flag United States Read
JAN ALLISON Isle Of Man Flag Isle Of Man Read
Ruben O. Argentina Flag Argentina Read
Victor Buhagiar Malta Flag Malta Read
Tim Smith United States Flag United States Read
Teppo Gren Finland Flag Finland Read
John lawless United States Flag United States Read
elizabeth wesley Canada Flag Canada Read