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Follow Up on the Poet Doctor's Blog - Craig Cornish's Blog

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Follow Up on the Poet Doctor's Blog

Blog Posted:7/14/2018 7:58:00 AM

I agree that sentences, in proper form, should not begin with conjunctions unless for exceptional artistic reason. It should, however, be acceptable to start a poetic line that is enjambed (a continuation of the previous line) since that, in esscence is still part of the sentence.



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Lawless Avatar
John
Lawless
Date: 7/15/2018 6:20:00 PM
So perhaps we do not have our "Poetic License" yet....can we at least apply for a "Learner's Permit"?
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Goff Avatar
James Marshall
Goff
Date: 7/14/2018 8:05:00 PM
ee cummings utilized spaces as often as commas & periods to conclude thoughts, though often deeply thought, his lines expressed a lyricism unencumbered...
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Cornish Avatar
Craig Cornish
Date: 7/14/2018 9:17:00 PM
Great example which at some point had dwelled in the corners of my mind---thanks James
Krampe Avatar
Agnes
Krampe
Date: 7/14/2018 4:03:00 PM
I would like to ask a spin-off question that is grammar related as well: how does everyone here feel about the use of phrases that are not complete sentences? I have been on a poetry forum where incomplete sentences without full punctuation drew scathing reprimands; however, I feel that as a stylistic measure, phrases can be very appropriate in poems. They can signal the fragmented nature of thoughts and feelings, fleeting impressions - I don't believe we THINK in complete sentences all the time.
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Thomas Avatar
FJ Thomas
Date: 7/15/2018 8:29:00 PM
I agree with Julia.
Ward Avatar
Julia Ward
Date: 7/15/2018 7:02:00 AM
Incompleteness in phrasing creates interest and often conveys the mood better than completeness. Done well, such poetry can be among the best there is.
Dietrich Avatar
Andrea Dietrich
Date: 7/14/2018 7:26:00 PM
Agnes, I feel it's the poet's job to at least write so that we comprehend what he is saying. I have known people to make long sentences with poor punctuation, so I honestly cannot tell where one part begins and the other ends. The same thing happens with phrases. If they don't make sense, I don't like it. A good writer chooses the the order of the words in his phrase to make it work!! (I still prefer traditional sentences though)
Cornish Avatar
Craig Cornish
Date: 7/14/2018 6:01:00 PM
I love creative fragments, like Sue says, especially in our native languages and especially more so with those we intimately know all we need is to intimate or nod at the thought to be understood but in a poem to the masses it is what creates that ambiguity that allows the reader to both fill in their thoughts while coming up with their own ideas/conclusions/inspirations--I cannot comprehend a true poet having issues with that.
Thomas Avatar
FJ Thomas
Date: 7/14/2018 4:30:00 PM
You've said it perfectly Agnes. In most arts everyday rules do not apply; and many times do not fit. I think in the case of fragmented sentences we may see them a lot in poetry because our thoughts and emotions themselves may be but fragments of a whole. Still the reader usually grasps the meaning. Just sharing my humble view point :)
Krampe Avatar
Agnes
Krampe
Date: 7/14/2018 1:13:00 PM
Any writing should be thoughtful. No matter what type of writing, the choice to begin a sentence with a conjunction should be deliberate and for a reason. I am using "and" at the beginning of sentences/lines for stylistic reasons, to emulate certain historic modes of speech, to emphasize. The "rule" not to begin a sentence with a coordinating conjunction is as contrived as the one not to end a sentence with a preposition; it is more a matter of style than a matter of grammar.
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Roper Avatar
Eve Roper
Date: 7/14/2018 7:00:00 PM
Like your input, Agnes ... Hugs
Cornish Avatar
Craig Cornish
Date: 7/14/2018 3:33:00 PM
Agnes, if English is your second language, I bow to you because your logic and expression of it is more succinct than 90% of EFLs could do...in addition, you should be a lawyer! Well said, not that you need or want my approval.
Krampe Avatar
Agnes Krampe
Date: 7/14/2018 2:52:00 PM
Craig, that is where "ANY writing should be thoughtful" comes in. The thought can be in adhering to an arbitrary rule because the writer expects a better outcome from that, or the thought can be in deliberately writing against the rule to make a point. My main point was that breaking any of the rules should be the result of intentional action, not just of an insufficient mastery of grammar.
Cornish Avatar
Craig Cornish
Date: 7/14/2018 1:30:00 PM
I think there are many instances that require proper grammar and therefore the correct traditional use of the language. One must be cautious of "allowances" because that can become a slippery slope to sloppy writing for business papers etc. The younger generation is already challenged in that regard. You seem to speak in absolutes masked in artistic pretext. Not everything need be artistic and thoughtful need not break tradition or it may do so at its own peril. Send a resume cover letter with your ideals and don't expect a reply.
Cornish Avatar
Craig
Cornish
Date: 7/14/2018 10:55:00 AM
It is an interesting topic Poet Doctor and worthy of discussion, the predominant question being, "Do, or should, the standard rules of English (or any language) apply to poetry or what "rules" should apply to any art form?" Even if you are writing prose and desire to be different for "effect", should you be constrained by proper grammar? I think not, yet in saying that, I do think that in normal writings the proper presentation of every language has been abused and not for creative reasons, but for ignorant ones. Fundamentals should always precede the creative; one should know how to catch a ball with two hands before they get fancy with one---just thinkin'.
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Frederic
Parker
Date: 7/14/2018 10:27:00 AM
I've done it, then sometimes I'll re-read and go why did I do it...then again I've never been accused of using proper english...thanks Craig, I can't remember when you ever posted a blog then pushed the no comment button and you've had some lively blogs
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Cornish Avatar
Craig Cornish
Date: 7/14/2018 1:34:00 PM
Thank you Frederic---Though I think you are very proper!
La France Avatar
Constance
La France
Date: 7/14/2018 10:12:00 AM
Poetry should not be lesson in proper grammar, to me that is totally losing the poetic flow,. Poets all through time have been using and, but etc at beginnings of sentences, I do it all the time and if I do not place in a contest because I used poetic license then so be it, but I am not prepared to change poetic freedom for someone's .strict grammar rules
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Lindley Avatar
Robert Lindley
Date: 7/14/2018 6:48:00 PM
BWDH, I agree with you completely. Poetic Heart and Poetic Freedom are what any true poet should strive to maintain, along with Originality.... There will always be critics, some are just blind, others are ignorant and others still, striking out because of jealousy/ their own self-inflated egos. Rules, like treaties are made to be broken..my 2 cents..
Cornish Avatar
Craig Cornish
Date: 7/14/2018 11:41:00 AM
Agreed Constance
Roper Avatar
Eve Roper
Date: 7/14/2018 11:16:00 AM
:) Broken Wings, I am here to support you.
Roper Avatar
Eve Roper
Date: 7/14/2018 11:16:00 AM
:) Broken Wings, I am here to support you.
La France Avatar
Constance La France
Date: 7/14/2018 10:17:00 AM
And to post a blog asking a question and then not allowing replies is in my opinion not helpful to poetry in any way. Blogs should be about back and forth communication. Just my opinion, thanks for the blog Craig.

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