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Rhyme and Meter Blah Blah

Blog Posted:11/17/2017 8:40:00 AM

A fellow poet brought to my attention that my rhymes were not exact rhymes and she is correct. Some have mistakenly, over more contempoary years DEMANDED exact rhymes from the "Traditional" forms when that was never truly a requirement and was never truly demanded by the inventors of these forms, even taking into consideration the evolution of pronunciation. This demand, unfortunately has prostituted the rhymed forms because demanding forced exact rhyme robs creativity, which it surely does if carried to extremes. Close rhyme should be good enough. The same goes for meter which should have some artistic flexibility for all the same reasons. Just one example is Shakespeares Sonnet #116, one of his most famous.

Let me not to the marriage of true minds (a)
Admit impediments, love is not love (b)*
Which alters when it alteration finds, (a)
Or bends with the remover to remove. (b)*
O no, it is an ever fixèd mark (c)**
That looks on tempests and is never shaken; (d)***
It is the star to every wand'ring bark, (c)**
Whose worth's unknown although his height be taken. (d)***
Love's not time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks (e)
Within his bending sickle's compass come, (f)*
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks, (e)
But bears it out even to the edge of doom: (f)*
If this be error and upon me proved, (g)*
I never writ, nor no man ever loved. (g)*

No matter what any linguist tries to tell you love and remove, nor come and doom, nor proved and loved, were ever exact rhymes. No matter what any meter mentor ever tried to tell you, the only lines that are true iambic pentameter are lines 3,5,7,8 (with allowance for the extra syllable),9,10,11,13 and 14--pretty much, but altering this poem would be akin to additional brush strokes on the Mona Lisa. Yet, prior to going abstract, some respectable  semblace of traditional structure should exist. We can, given those thoughts, have more freedom for expression and creativity within structured forms. Cyndi and others have said that "forced" anything is not quality writing and I agree, but there is a happy medium where structure can be just as creative and wonderful.



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Date: 11/21/2017 1:27:00 PM
Hey Craig, your Latin response was good in that it was pivotal, even if this was not your intention. I will say you have become much more careful in the blogs, saving your edge for more covert forms of communication. I hope you appreciate ‘Caddyshack’ as much as I do, I consider it a classic and a good resource. And Keith – Craig brought a new toy to the sandbox so I gave it a try.
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Rob Carmack
Date: 11/22/2017 3:16:00 PM
Craig - I once watched a video on Doxie's and they explained the characteristics of the coat types. I can't remember who had what. Keith - Bonnie must be strong and tough being that type of cross.
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/22/2017 2:36:00 PM
That's called something Keith (the animal thingy) but I don't want to go there, family site and all, but that's between you and Bonnie--8-)
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/22/2017 7:31:00 AM
Rob, the long-hairs are the most laid back, at least that's what I'm told and ours is proof, at least for one, of that fact. Only room for one uptight animal here anyhow.
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Rob Carmack
Date: 11/21/2017 11:37:00 PM
Craig : Yes, Doxie lovers cannot be all bad. Once had a boss who’s decisions infuriated my comrades, to the point I had to remind them she owned 3 Dachshunds. They are stubborn, esp w/ house breaking. I was lucky with Boo, he took to house breaking quickly, but he is part Chihuahua. I want to add a black & tan short hair Dachshund to the family next summer. I am not a golfer, but I believe that your friend’s hole in one off the tree was valid?
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Rob Carmack
Date: 11/21/2017 11:00:00 PM
Keith - immo!
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/21/2017 3:37:00 PM
BTW, LOVE Caddyshack---the actors my favorites...and I play golf too, so that helps with the "inside" jokes. I have a friend who is a PGA Pro, yet his only hole in one was Dangerfield style (off a tree)--still laughs about it.
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/21/2017 3:25:00 PM
8-) Hey any Doxie lover can't be all bad and they're sort of like their owners, stubborn, with occasional accidents to make their points (no pun), but lovable enough not to get their ars tossed out. Speaking of which mine is looking at me right now (lasers), I'm snacking. I swear if you left a 20 lb turkey out he would eat it til he blew up!! But if anyone ever hurt him, God protect them--LOVE that dog and my 20 year old Tom cat. I'll stop, just bragging on my boys! Our Doxie is now 12, we rescued him 3 1/2 years ago, he was named Sherman so we didn't change that---perfect---later
Date: 11/19/2017 7:40:00 AM
Hi Craig, thank you for reading and commenting on my poem, "Wake up, my heart", I never had any meter in mind when writing it, so am glad to hear your views:)
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/19/2017 10:45:00 AM
Funny thing is Jo, that we use meter naturally more than we know but most choke when told they must write it. I suppose it's no different than someone asking you to do that funny imitation you've been so good at a hundred times but in front of friends at a party you can't do it when requested because it has to be spontaneous.
Date: 11/18/2017 11:57:00 PM
Thanks for your enlightening thoughts Ms Richards, but I need a night of slant/forced sleep to respond----in the mean time, let us not forget it is my contest and my rules----so do what you may and pantomime what you will, but then, your inept attempts at joviality have always entertained me for...milliseconds--which, I suppose, is better than none.
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Date: 11/18/2017 6:16:00 PM
Dear Craig, the monorhyme part of the poem needs to rhyme exactly as described by definition: Monorhyme is a rhyme scheme in which each line has an identical rhyme. The term "monorhyme" describes the use of one (mono) type of repetitious sound (rhyme), usually at the end of each line. However; very close rhyme can be used for the matching two lines used with the monorhyme if needed. You can look at my description of my Constanza form at Shadow Poetry to see my examples: http://www.shadowpoetry.com/resources/wip/constanza.html Thank you very much for using my Constanza form in your contest. So far the entries I have read have blown me away. : )
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/21/2017 10:34:00 AM
Hi Rob, it is "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him" Proverbs 26:4 kjv
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Rob Carmack
Date: 11/20/2017 8:25:00 PM
Craig – nothing foolish in my comment. You should embrace your nick, it fits you. Your passion, even when aggressive, provides color and spice to the soup. I would have it no other way. So what you are telling her; audi vocem meam, et non facitis quae dico?
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/20/2017 6:28:00 PM
Lin, ne respondeas stuito iuxta stuititiam suam
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Rob Carmack
Date: 11/19/2017 10:57:00 PM
Lin – for sure Craig has his Judge Smails moments, but he does have a point concerning some of the trends with PS contests. I know he takes metrical writing serious, that is why I entered his ‘Death’ contest.
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Lin Lane
Date: 11/19/2017 6:42:00 PM
What I noticed is that in order for you to think I'm "not precise on other forms" means that you read my poetry. I don't read yours. I'm giving you credit for aptly choosing a great name for your blog...Blah Blah. You have a good night's rest, Craig, and if you choose to reply to this I'll let you have the last tit-for-tat word.
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/19/2017 6:22:00 PM
Lin, my contests always fill with mostly quality poems. The reason "some" don't enter my contests is because I actually require excellence, which happens to be unusually here. Thank you for noticing that.
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Lin Lane
Date: 11/19/2017 5:50:00 PM
Your attitude with finding faults in others is the reason some don't enter your contests. Humility is not a burden. Try it.
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/19/2017 5:13:00 PM
Exactly Lin and that's why when I participated in contests I was among the top 5 winners---do what you will dear and be precise which you don't do on may other forms. But it doesn't matter when judges are not truly judges.
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Lin Lane
Date: 11/19/2017 12:42:00 PM
Typical of you, Craig. You da judge and since I didn't enter your contest my Constanza is written in Connie's more precise form.
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/19/2017 10:50:00 AM
Sorry Connie, I will clarify that your official rules are for exact rhyme and my requirements are a modification. Over the centuries however rhyme schemes have been extensively toyed with. When you ask for abb acc add etc. Why is "a" more important than "b" or "c". Should it be? If we come up with an inspiration for a primary muse which has limited exact rhymes we become restricted in creative presentation. If there is anyone on the soup that has stood for form rules it has been me but I have evolved those thoughts over time. I still respect traditional rules, but with some limited flexibility for the art of the message. In this case, I certainly do not want slant rhyme and will not accept it nor will I accept anything other than "close" iambic tetrameter, but will bend for an extra syllable thrown in for artistic effect.
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/19/2017 9:35:00 AM
Thanks Connie and I respect that but for this contest I will allow close rhyme no matter where it is in the poem. Which btw Lin is the only explanation that matters in the contest.
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Lin Lane
Date: 11/19/2017 9:15:00 AM
There you have the only explanation that matters...from the originator of the Constanza-Connie Wong
Date: 11/18/2017 9:12:00 AM
I understand meter but am very bad at using it, Craig, though I understand your point about rhyme, Shakespeare sure had his exceptions:)
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/18/2017 10:12:00 AM
Hi Jo, It's like doing anything, lead me to something you wrote or tried to write in any kind of meter and I will try to help you----everything we first learn is initially over steered; a bike, a car, a boat - love. When it comes naturally it's easy and just flows, but when we try too hard it just doesn't work.
Date: 11/18/2017 6:43:00 AM
"I writ a poem - it sounded good - like rhythmic, cracklin', burnin', wood"...Craig, I wrote that line in a poem many years ago and it still haunts me when the "meter/rhythm/rhyme" debates recur.
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/18/2017 7:52:00 AM
Sounds like a good beat to me John--Perhaps a fun Holiday song!
Date: 11/17/2017 5:46:00 PM
Thanks Craig, this is helpful
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/18/2017 7:53:00 AM
Hi Becca, hope so 8-)
Date: 11/17/2017 3:44:00 PM
Thanks for the clarification Craig, as you know I was somewhat confused by your contest especially as the soup description of monorhyme is "An identical rhyme on every line, common in Latin and Arabic" I'll see what i can come up with but know places are limited as its a premiere contest:-) hugs Jan xx
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Jan Allison
Date: 11/17/2017 4:06:00 PM
They sure are:-(
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Craig Cornish
Date: 11/17/2017 4:01:00 PM
Soup descriptions are too often misleading

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