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To All PoetrySoup Members. Censorship is a Slippery Slope. But Hate Speech...

Blog Posted:10/31/2023 2:40:00 PM

[To All PoetrySoup Members] Censorship is a slippery slope.

However, PoetrySoup believes that private companies like PoetrySoup have the right to prohibit content or establish rules to benefit their communities. However, we limit our influence on creative liberties regarding poetry.

With that in mind, inflammatory and derogatory comments or poems about ethnic groups, cultures, alternate lifestyles, entire religious groups, and the like are not acceptable on PoetrySoup. This censorship does not apply to politics! The political arena is fair game. However, writing poems featuring hate speech targeting, for instance, Jewish, Arab, or Islamic people is not tolerated.

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PoetrySoup has members from all over the world and from different cultures, beliefs, and faiths. The PoetrySoup staff does not see nor acknowledge national borders. So, keep this in mind when writing poems and comments on PoetrySoup.

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Robert
Warlov

Date: 11/12/2023 4:41:00 PM

Words are not bullets __ . . . until SPEECH IS DENIED! "Free Speech" is the essence of democratic activity. I'm a so-called person-of-color and have never suffered ill health effects from derogatory aspersions cast at me. As long as our society has children it will have childish name-calling and this is for Team Poetry Soup @TPS specifically. I didn't know you were removing poems without informing people and I would like to know now whether or not you have ever removed any of my writings?

B. Joseph
Fitzsimons

Date: 11/3/2023 12:00:00 PM

I think this discussion is very important to have because there is another issue entangled with censorship: misinformation and disinformation (disinformation is intentional). I think poets should be careful about regurgitating the words we hear from the figures we choose to listen to and what we think is truth, and recognize that as citizens, our access to truth is limited to a sense of faith in the institutions that cover major events. That being said, I think it's important as a poet to embrace my ignorance and be aware of whether or not what I am writing is coming from my own mind. It's easy to accidentally spread misinformation and hate without being conscious of our decisions.

Bl
Devnath

Date: 11/3/2023 1:14:00 AM

It's not fair to blame any religion, caste and creed etc. directly or indirectly. Poetrysoup is absolutely right. Poetrysoup an international stage of genius poets who have very good knowledge having great hearts.

Mark
Koplin

Date: 11/2/2023 4:33:00 PM

Everyone was quick to grab their pitchforks and torches here. The poet used the phrase “the fourth Reich “ and referred to Israel. Ok, the third Reich was nazi germany. The second Reich was regular Germany before hitler took over. The fourth Reich doesn’t exist and has been used for different meanings. The people of nazi germany who were against the nazis first used this term for what would be if the nazis were gotten rid of . The word Reich does not mean or have anything to do with Nazis. Reich is simply a German word for empire or realm. Did anyone even ask the poet what she meant?

Mark Koplin
Date: 11/2/2023 5:09:00 PM

Ok, thanks for your response. These threads are all over the place and it’s hard to figure out what’s what.

Team Poetrysoup
Date: 11/2/2023 5:05:00 PM

This has little to do with that poem. It has more to do with the poems that followed.

Mark Koplin
Date: 11/2/2023 4:36:00 PM

Are all Israelies Jewish? Are all Germans Nazis? Are all terrorists Muslim? Are all Muslims terrorists? Never assume what any author means without looking up the simple meaning of words and phrases. Shame on you

Anonomus
Scorpio

Date: 11/2/2023 12:13:00 PM

I would like to formally apologize to this community, I wrote a poem on Monday that I later removed of my own accord. It was indirectly but directly expressing my feeling towards Conflicts happening in the Middle East currently. I am not proud of the wording and way that I chose to direct the poem. It was born of emotion, but not birthed in a respectful way, for that; I am truly sorry to any and all that read it. I do not normally condone censorship, but in this instance given the polarizing feelings in the world. Poetry in any form should not be widening the chasm, it should be bridging the divided. Asking for forgiveness.... Anonomus Scorpio

Robert Warlov
Date: 11/12/2023 5:10:00 PM

I hope you will rewrite it. If you need editorial help, I can't imagine a better place to find it. ~

Craig
Cornish

Date: 11/1/2023 1:24:00 PM

Given all these thoughts, who removes a poem, AI and based on what parameters, and shouldn't the poet be able to change the poem to something that conforms, especially if it's an innocent error? Not all poems (heaven forbid) can be sunshine and lollypops, so some writes may be perhaps?...So, how is one to learn if they don't know what they did wrong - why are they grounded if they didn't break curfew? I just had a contest winner whose poem was removed and I can't see why except for perhaps one line? One more thing, I hope the readers know that politics is only fair game in poems and NOT on blogs--thank you for enduring this - BTW, go Bulldogs!

Team Poetrysoup
Date: 11/2/2023 1:15:00 PM

Yes, Craig. We keep a database of the problem children with their history. We have banned many and then allow them back. We believe that people can change. However, some have proven that they can’t change. And as you mention, they are the usual suspects.

Craig Cornish
Date: 11/2/2023 1:14:00 PM

It is not the one, it is the totally volume of them that reference a couple people.

Craig Cornish
Date: 11/2/2023 11:06:00 AM

@TPS, I've been here long enough to know you've been more than fair and the growth of this site is proof that you "Please most of the people most of the time", and that is because you listen and consider. You reference thousands, yet like the rest of life, it's (as you've alluded before) "The usual suspects". Those that participate in the social interaction good & bad (subjectively). That is a relatively small group who hang in the shadows and vilify at their will. If it is offensive to target a group, is it not offensive to "Stone" one person? We must celebrate creative writing about inspirational thoughts, not those types who hang out in the alleys like lynch mobs.

Charlotte Puddifoot
Date: 11/2/2023 10:43:00 AM

i already stated i support your stance on hate speech and bullying, but what i'm referring to here is the intrusion of censorship into wider areas of everyday life, for example alternative healers being censored and banned from platforms, censorship of the arts, creative expression etc. if the trend continues you'll see where it lands humanity in another 20 years or so

Team Poetrysoup
Date: 11/2/2023 9:08:00 AM

@Charlotte, no one likes, censorship until they are the target of hate speech or bullying. Then, of course, they immediately want the poem removed. It’s funny how that works.

Charlotte Puddifoot
Date: 11/2/2023 3:30:00 AM

censorship is intruding more and more into every aspect of life, and it will ultimately lead humanity to a very sinister place..think george orwell's 1984..

Ariana
Pataki

Date: 11/1/2023 8:36:00 AM

I'm may be only 14 years old, still I think blocking hateful topics in poems isn't about stopping creativity. It's more about boosting the other voices that spread kindness. Poetry is art, open to all, but it shouldn't be a license for judgment or hate. Let's celebrate diversity and understanding, using words to unite people, not divide them. I completely agree w you!

Ariana Pataki
Date: 11/12/2023 10:35:00 PM

Robert, I agree with you. Yes, personal expression is crucial for democracy, BUT we must also navigate the balance between freedom and potential harm. Just as with any form of speech, the responsible exercise of creativity requires thoughtful consideration of its impact on individuals and society. The focus should be on the potential pain caused by poems rather than on who decides their elimination. Knowing the impact of expression on emotional well-being is essential for living in a society that values both free speech and empathy.

Robert Warlov
Date: 11/12/2023 6:23:00 PM

An excellent statement, but the problem is in the particular repository of power exercised by an authority who decides ultimately where those rules of diversity and understanding lay. The object of self-governance is a product formost of the ability to communicate. Democracy means "People power" and we can't continue to strive for a more perfect union if we are denied the ability to participate in personal expressions. Thanks

Craig Cornish
Date: 11/2/2023 7:27:00 PM

Ariana, it's not often that someone as young as you gets to (unfortunately or otherwise) get to see that "grownups" of all ages can have the same social challenges as you are, and we all did back in school. Don't let it discourage you, it's how we hopefully learn to disagree and compromise - that is truly life, for better or worse. Makes us appreciate those peaceful times!

Team Poetrysoup
Date: 11/2/2023 10:42:00 AM

You are a very intelligent 14-year-old. We are glad to have you as a member of this community.

Craig Cornish
Date: 11/1/2023 11:14:00 AM

Dear Ariana, Bravo for your voice in this world and poetry. I starting writing poems at your age, keep going!

Craig
Cornish

Date: 11/1/2023 6:46:00 AM

If a poem can be banned because of sexual insinuation and attack poems live on because they don't include a name, that is hypocrisy, especially when the subject of the attack is overtly obvious.

Charlotte Puddifoot
Date: 11/2/2023 3:27:00 AM

there's a particular little group on the site who make a habit of writing spiteful jingles targeting first one person, then another; it's been going on for years, and they're so well practised at it they're careful not to use the person's full name, but write in such a way that it's obvious who it's about

Brandy Nicole
Date: 11/1/2023 7:30:00 PM

Agreed. In fact, a friend is being attacked through a recent poem. As stated below, it's in "the eye of the reader and their perception." That must mean: The writer meant it differently and I'm seeing it as an attack ! ! ! There's proof in the wording what the writer means, with names rearranged.

Craig Cornish
Date: 11/1/2023 7:08:00 PM

Yes there is Brandy, and it happens frequently and it's usually quite simple to determine the person who is being attacked.

Brandy Nicole
Date: 11/1/2023 6:08:00 PM

If you haven't noticed, there's a loophole, CC. Using a name differently, like I've done here with yours, makes it okay to write poems that attack. Rearranging letters and not mentioning the exact name - allows writers to say whatever they want and get away with it.

Craig Cornish
Date: 11/1/2023 8:33:00 AM

Don't get me wrong, I think you do an awesome job herding cats and screenshots and references would be the only way to prove.

Team Poetrysoup
Date: 11/1/2023 7:43:00 AM

"Overtly obvious" is in the eye of the reader and their perception. We do not know who has problems with whom among our thousands of poets, so when reported, we look at those issues from an objective viewpoint. If we can't tell it's an attack. There's nothing we can do. Obviously, the use of a member's name is "overt."

David
Kavanagh

Date: 11/1/2023 6:02:00 AM

I see censorship does not apply to politics, what about a political system that is controlled by a religious system, do they get a special exemption? if yes please state why! Cheers David

David Kavanagh
Date: 11/1/2023 1:56:00 PM

I can go along with grey areas! thanks so much PS for replying today, cheers David

Team Poetrysoup
Date: 11/1/2023 12:38:00 PM

David, David, there are ALWAYS grey areas. Always. That's why the buck must stop somewhere, and on this website, that buck stops with the PoetrySoup staff. But, let's say you attacked all "Christians" because the Catholic religion in Germany supported Hitler in WWII. That would NOT be acceptable.

David Kavanagh
Date: 11/1/2023 8:56:00 AM

Thanks PS but that still leaves a huge grey area, Ok let me put it another way, eg…say some poet from a religious led country decided to write a political slam about the US that would be fine by PS rules above, but if say a US poet wanted to write a political slam about that foreign poets country, they would not be allowed to, because that said country is ruled by a religious regime, hence anything they say could be construed as an attack on that particular country’s religious beliefs in its entirety! which in turn would mean that PS censorship would only apply to the US poet!

Team Poetrysoup
Date: 11/1/2023 7:40:00 AM

That is a GREAT question! The way we look at it, if you are addressing something from a political perspective, it's acceptable. Just do not group an entire ethnic group, culture, religion, etc. into it. Still pondering this, however. Great question!!!

Craig Cornish
Date: 11/1/2023 6:41:00 AM

Good point

Vee
Sherman

Date: 11/1/2023 5:23:00 AM

One thing I would never do is down or degrade a fellow poet. Their creations are just that..their creations regardless of who they are.

Charlotte
Puddifoot

Date: 11/1/2023 2:59:00 AM

censorship is indeed a slippery slope, and whilst i support your stance on hate speech, i find the squeamishness over certain words used in poems somewhat over zealous and outdated

Team Poetrysoup
Date: 11/1/2023 5:10:00 AM

We disagree.

Paghunda
Zahid

Date: 11/1/2023 2:03:00 AM

Agreed, hate speech is not an option. Though raising voice against oppression or genocide or massacre or some kind of terror activity is another thing. Writen plenty of poems against war, and occupation and terrorism, but never against a particular group.

Team Poetrysoup
Date: 11/1/2023 5:10:00 AM

Agreed!

Mulu
Magdalinos

Date: 10/31/2023 10:09:00 PM

Dear Team PS, I totally agree.

Ink
Empress

Date: 10/31/2023 10:01:00 PM

Dear Poetry Soup, i appreciate you doing this and putting this up, as we are all children of God, we all deserve respect equally. I am a muslim but i dont support terrorism and i am not against any other religion, I believe in kindness and love and we should not punish and hate on any religion or race because of what’s happening today. I have soul sisters who are pagans, christians, jews, hindus, etc and i think what matters is at the end of the day how one makes you feel as a person. I saw this video on social media where jews and muslims were singing together for peace. How beautiful is that. Sending all soupers light always! And it makes me happy to see that admins care. Thank u

Brandy
Nicole

Date: 10/31/2023 6:19:00 PM

Dear Team Poetry Soup, you fail to mention: "hate speech in comments that target other poets, along with poems that belittle other poets, will not be tolerated." The "Freedom of Speech" clause doesn't justify hate comments or poetry. An issue far greater than you may realize. ~ Brandy

Brandy Nicole
Date: 11/1/2023 7:13:00 PM

Thanks, Craig.

Craig Cornish
Date: 11/1/2023 7:10:00 PM

Brandy, responded to you above on your comment.

Team Poetrysoup
Date: 11/1/2023 5:11:00 AM

"You can't address one and leave the other out." You can at times. We understand what you are saying, we just disagree with it. We wanted to focus on this for now.

Charlotte Puddifoot
Date: 11/1/2023 3:00:00 AM

you make a good point, brandy

Brandy Nicole
Date: 10/31/2023 7:33:00 PM

My point belongs here in this post. It's not just about politics and cultures. Hate speech is everywhere on this site and should be addressed along with these points you've made. You can't address one and leave the other out. I'm just a simple woman, but I speak from experience.. My best to everyone. ~ Brandy

Team Poetrysoup
Date: 10/31/2023 7:15:00 PM

Oh, you mean in THIS post! Those things were not the topic of this post. We didn't address "everything" here. We were specifically referring to our Term and Conditions in our reply to you.

Brandy Nicole
Date: 10/31/2023 7:13:00 PM

Correction: Point 2 mentions this : inflammatory and derogatory comments or poems about ethnic groups, cultures, alternate lifestyles, entire religious groups, and the like are not acceptable on PoetrySoup. In BOLD ~ This censorship does not apply to politics! ~ Does not state "hate speech in comments that target other poets, along with poems that belittle other poets, will not be tolerated." I wanted to bring that to your attention. ~ Brandy

Team Poetrysoup
Date: 10/31/2023 7:07:00 PM

That's already addressed in our Terms. See point #2. We do not allow the use of a poet's names unless it's in a positive light.

James
Inman

Date: 10/31/2023 5:01:00 PM

I hope that the members of PoetrySoup understand that with the volume of poems and posts added each day it would be impossible to read everything posted which means the use of algorithms that may miss something occasionally. I agree with your premise and encourage everyone here to support it.

Phyllis
Babcock

Date: 10/31/2023 4:26:00 PM

A good reminder so thank you.

Frederic
Parker

Date: 10/31/2023 4:22:00 PM

Well said...

Arlo
Parker

Date: 10/31/2023 4:05:00 PM

A clear, concise application of principles our Community should welcome. Thx. :o/

Speaks
Volumes

Date: 10/31/2023 4:01:00 PM

GOOD !

Richard
Lamoureux

Date: 10/31/2023 3:53:00 PM

I am glad to see this.

Tom
Pickering

Date: 10/31/2023 3:16:00 PM

Thank you soooo much for this. I have seen a few "free verse" posts recently that were a long way over the line. As a new member it was really making me wonder if this was a site I wanted to frequent. It is very very good too see you take a firm stance on this important issue.

Jan
Allison

Date: 10/31/2023 3:09:00 PM

A timely reminder, thanks for posting the blog

Aby
M'Baye

Date: 10/31/2023 3:03:00 PM

Totally agree, thanks for that !

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