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So few Words yet such a difficult Task - Debbie Guzzi's Blog

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Deborah Guzzi writes full time. Her third book, The Hurricane is available through Prolific Press. https://prolificpress.com/bookstore/prolific-books-c-12/the-hurricane-by-deborah-guzzi-p-151.html Her poetry appears in Allegro, Artificium, Shooter, & The Foxglove Journal in the UK, Subterranean Blue, Existere, The Ekphrastic Review, Scarlet Leaf Review & Subterranean Blue Poetry, Canada - Tincture, Australia - mgv2>publishing, France Cha: Asian Review, China - Vine Leaves Literary Journal, Australia - The Scarlet Leaf Review - Greece, Ribbons, pioneertown, Sounding Review, Bacopa Literary Review, The Aurorean, Liquid Imagination, The Tishman Review, Page & Spine & others in the USA.

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So few Words yet such a difficult Task

Blog Posted:10/1/2012 1:47:00 PM

Below I have copied for you an article about the differences and similarities between haiku & senryu.

NEITHER is simply a single thought divided into 5/7/5

Akita International Haiku Network

“We all try our best / in our busy,
busy lives / to write poetry.”

What are Haiku, Senryu ?

What are Haiku, Senryu?

To help you get started, here is a short introduction to Japanese poetry styles.

What are Haiku?

Haiku is a form of Japanese poetry, consisting of 17 morae (or on), in three metrical phrases of 5, 7 and 5 morae respectively. Haiku typically contain a kigo, or seasonal
reference, and a kireji, or verbal caesura (cutting word).

English-language haiku poets think of haiku as a Japanese form of poetry generally (but not always) consisting of 17 syllables, usually within three lines, with 5, 7 and 5 syllables.

In Japanese, haiku are traditionally printed in a single vertical line, while haiku in English usually appear in three lines, to parallel the three metrical phrases of Japanese haiku. The essential element of form in English-language haiku is that each haiku is a short one-breath poem that usually contains a juxtaposition of images.

Most haiku writers prefer poems that refer to nature and social events, but some of them don’t always place an exacting seasonal word in the poem. Furthermore, a few of them write haiku
composed on one or two lines in less than 17 syllables. Currently the majority of haiku are written in 11 short syllables in a 3-5-3 format.

And Senryu?

Senryu is a Japanese form of short poetry similar to haiku in construction: three lines with 17 or fewer morae (or on) in total. However, senryu tend to be about human foibles while haiku tend to be about nature, and senryu are often cynical or darkly humorous while haiku are more serious. Unlike haiku, senryu do not include a kireji or verbal caesura (cutting word), and do not generally include a kigo, or seasonal word.

It is often said that both haiku and senryu can be funny, but that if it’s funny, it’s probably senryu. Both haiku and senryu can be about nature, but if it’s about nature, it’s probably a haiku. In addition, both haiku and senryu can be about nature or human nature. Both haiku and senryu can be serious or humorous/satirical. A serious poem about nature is certainly a haiku. And a funny/satirical poem about human nature is certainly a senryu.

I was wondering how many poets even care whether they mislable what they write?

Do you see it as respectfull to the reader to lure them in with an incorrect label?

Post Comments

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Debbie
Guzzi

Date: 10/2/2012 1:31:00 PM

I spent years not knowing what the heck FORM???? I was writing in and it really annoyed me. My sis is an English teacher and she say these are good poems Deb I'd say thanks what kind of poems and she's say hmmmmmmmm. OK now here we are this site has a fantastic FORM DICTIONARY and many learned folk there is really no reason not to find OUT what form you have written in

Carol
Eastman

Date: 10/2/2012 11:28:00 AM

A very interesting write. I'll have to think about this one. Cool!

Cyndi
Macmillan

Date: 10/2/2012 11:14:00 AM

Hmmmm... hasn't and isn't haiku and its definition been evolving for quite some time? I'm not sold that writing in a form is OBJECTIVE, but I do believe that learning how to write in an objective manner does strengthen one's writing skills. Check out this book http://books.google.ca/books/about/The_Unswept_Path.html?id=yLqdNxt5e-cC&redir_esc=y The preface is very interesting. Also, simple and uber cool: http://www.slideshare.net/butwait/defining-haiku-presentation

Charles
Henderson

Date: 10/2/2012 9:11:00 AM

I also feel it is a worse disrespect to intentionally write something knowing that you are going to call it a form which it is not. That really chafs my loins, but who am I. Just my two cents worth.

Charles
Henderson

Date: 10/2/2012 8:58:00 AM

Deb, I just sent you an email.

Charles
Henderson

Date: 10/2/2012 8:33:00 AM

I defininitely feel a lack of respect and laziness is partially the cause for mislabeling any poem. Haiku and senryu are more often mislabeled than other form, probably. I also feel it is a higher disrespect to label something ANY form when the poet does not research far enough to know what they are talking about. When i first got on the soup I was super hesitant to make any definitive statement about anything because I knew so little of about the forms which intesested me.

Kash
Poet

Date: 10/2/2012 7:57:00 AM

Hmmmm...:-)

Debbie
Guzzi

Date: 10/2/2012 6:12:00 AM

Carol hon I love you too, and just ignore the Debbie, but I do think folks have made progress in their haiku writing, many of us have tried to help there and now most on the site at minimum do not #1 say Haikus ;) #2 do not use capitalization [except for proper nouns] #3 understand two of the lines must be grammatically connected as well as conceptually. HUZZAH...the next step is to understand the difference between subjective and objective [and this will help all their writings. It will help their LIFE. YOUR opinions are not TRUTHS they are your truths not universal truths and not to be put in a haiku.

Debbie
Guzzi

Date: 10/2/2012 6:04:00 AM

Rueben can I give you a long distance SSMMMOOOOOOCHHH! The reason I am speaking of FORM, and not content, is that whether content is good or bad, impacting or boring is SUBJECTIVE, whether you have writen a poem correctly in a form is OBJECTIVE. FORM does matter, sloppy form leads to slopping writing, leads to lack of communication, and even the poet doesn't get what they want because they are NOT understood.

Mandy
Tams The Golden Girl

Date: 10/2/2012 12:51:00 AM

I admit to ignorance over some forms but life goes on on and we earn all the time, this has helped me a great deal thank you Debbs xx

Cyndi
Macmillan

Date: 10/1/2012 8:34:00 PM

Hey, hon, sent you a soup mail and I have put up a poem with a call out for editing help. I turned the lines somewhat, but more importantly did I really capture what I wanted? Did it seal that minute into a tiny poem? All help welcome and TRULY appreciated. I'm hoping this gets minds turning, hon. xox

Joann
Grisetti

Date: 10/1/2012 6:37:00 PM

I do not recall ever reading a book of poems where the form was labeled. I thought that was for the crtitics to have something to talk about.

Michael
Smith

Date: 10/1/2012 5:42:00 PM

Anyways it's good to have more knowledge. Thanks Debbie.

Michael
Smith

Date: 10/1/2012 5:40:00 PM

They mislabeled Mislabel.

Carol Sunshine
Brown

Date: 10/1/2012 5:37:00 PM

I totally agree with Cyndi. It is like everything else in life everyone sees things differently. That is what makes the world go around. Just like 3 people can read your poem and each see it as meaning something else. I am so tired of seeing blogs going up about Haiku and Senryu. I think it has run it's course. Just my ten cents worth. You know I loves ya babe. Carol

Cyndi
Macmillan

Date: 10/1/2012 3:30:00 PM

For me, hon, the most important aspect of every, no wait make that EVERY poem is its content. How does the poem move? Does it flow, captivate, energize, emote? Does it make me think, rethink, laugh or cry? Does the poet have a voice, a style? Does the poem surprise me, delight me? Is the verse free of cliche and excess description, redundancy, pretence??? If the poet has done this, if the poem has truth AND beauty OR truth OR Beauty, then that is ALL that matters. Nothing else does. This is where I come from. This is my belief. gota faly

Debbie
Guzzi

Date: 10/1/2012 3:18:00 PM

You do what you do for a reason, that's the big difference Dee. Yes a mistake is simply another way of doing things BUT what is it that is being done then becomes the question.

Cyndi
Macmillan

Date: 10/1/2012 3:13:00 PM

Good blog, Bet. Yup. You're definitely Bet here. :-) A quote I like:A mistake is simply another way of doing things- Katherine Graham. I'm currently working on a ballade,. I am not adherring to the syllable count, I am also playing with the repeated line, somewhat. Some rhyme will be slant. However, the scheme is 100% ballade. I will call it a ballade. It is a ballade. It is MY ballade. I doubt my readers will think, "Now, why did she label this a ballade?" This wouldn't be a mislabel. I don't believe that forms are stagnant. Poetry is constantly being wrought and bent. It is one of the things which makes it lovely. Some of my fave poets knew this, too. Glad your b.d. was a blast.

Joann Grisetti
Date: 10/1/2012 6:36:00 PM

I agree with you here.

Patricia Ellis
Date: 10/1/2012 3:18:00 PM

The same for me, I am still learning..

Debbie
Guzzi

Date: 10/1/2012 2:51:00 PM

If I make a mistake I truly WANT to be told. If friends don't tell me I feel like they let me walk around with toilet paper hanging from the back of my skirt...I hate feeling foolish! ;)

Patricia Ellis
Date: 10/1/2012 3:20:00 PM

The same for me, I am still learning..sorry it ended up on the wron comment..see still learning !

David Williams
Date: 10/1/2012 3:09:00 PM

you know you can tell me anytime you like, I too hate feeling foolish ...David

David
Williams

Date: 10/1/2012 2:18:00 PM

Debbie, good blog, I do think some poets mis-label their work, but I do not think it is intentional ergo I don't think they are trying to 'lure' them in, maybe I am wrong..hope you had a good birthday and a cup of Assam to celebrate...David

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6/8/2017	Haiku 1a	Haiku	life,
4/24/2017	Swingin On a Star	Free verse	allusion,art,beauty,
4/9/2017	A Lost Kind Returns	Sonnet	freedom,heartbroken,loss,
3/28/2017	Behind the Architects Crystal Lens	Verse	art,travel,
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1/31/2016	Breathless	Prose Poetry	hope,
1/29/2016	The Guardian At the Gate	Ekphrasis	myth,
1/16/2016	You Gotta Have Heart	Ekphrasis	art,
1/6/2016	Spectors of Doom	Shape	angst,war,
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12/5/2015	Madelaine's Chalice	Verse	devotion,love,
11/29/2015	Blessed Be	Verse	nature,
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11/17/2015	Golden Disks and Whale Clicks	Free verse	space,
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Fav Poems

PoemTitle	Form	Categories
God	Free verse	life,mystery,
Hard Times	Cowboy Poetry	cowboy-western,family,fun
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Petal	Verse	love,
Defender of the Wastes	Free verse	art,life,parody,world,
Birth	Imagism	childhood,life
This Is Why I Woo Words	Verse	art,inspirational,philoso
Forbear	Free verse	sad,
Belongings	Rhyme	loss,love,me,mother,
Gold Fever	Free verse	faithfaith,political,pers
Splattered	I do not know?	life
Echo	Quatrain	lost lovewords,love,
Bells (After Poe)	Lyric	passion
Respectfully, Emily Dickinson	Lyric	introspection,
Give the End Back To the Beginning	Free verse	dedication,faithme,
The Bruised and Rotting Pear	Couplet	faith,hope
Fly	Free verse	animals
Abc's For a Young Captain	ABC	life
Not Entirely About Living In New York	Free verse	lifeworld,light,light,
Woodcutter	I do not know?	warold,old,
Dreams	Free verse	faith,forgiveness
A Feed of Chips	Narrative	funny
Weep O Willows	Verse	death
Harlem Blues	Free verse	black-african amerchildre
Summers Everlasting	Free verse	nostalgia
Easter Ivy	Narrative	friendshipeaster,cousin,
End of Days	Rhyme	inspirational,lifeme,war,
Past-Life Nightmare	Narrative	autumn,mystery,
I Dream of You (To Jew)	Free verse	imagination,lovenight,swe
Jellyfish Back Strophe	Imagism	allegory,nature,on writin
Disposable Wisdom	Rhyme	age,cat,endurance,life,wi
Loneliness	Rhyme	introspection,life
Remission (In Memory of William Watt).	Elegy	brother,death,nostalgiawo
The Day That Died Forever	Free verse	adventure,angst,art,confu
Heritage	Quatrain	adventure,cowboy-western,
Summer Matinee	Narrative	brother,me,
The Moon and I	I do not know?	hope,life,love,nature,pea
Seeking, Searching	Free verse	imaginationlove,universe,
Before Spring Came	Narrative	adventure,animals,childho
Pledge	Sonnet	devotion
Wild Cherries	Free verse	devotion,nature,nostalgia
Words From the Oracle	Lay	allegory,philosophy
Science	Free verse
Mona Lisa Resembles	Choka	art
And With Merriest Spirit	Quintain (English)	faith,father,holiday,insp
Cotton-Pickin' Paradise	Verse	childhood,life,nostalgia,
Where the Sycamore Grew	Narrative	autumn,family,house,life,
Larks	Free verse	death,devotion,imaginatio
Big Bang	Limerick	funny,science,
Winter (Do Not Forget Among the Loss of Flowers) Me	Free verse
Let	I do not know?	loveme,me,
He Was Smoking Hot	I do not know?	funny
Alabaster Night	Free verse	nature,planet,sea,
Haunted Orb	Haiku	fantasy,nature
This Night	Sonnet
Tombstones & Teacups	Rhyme	allegory,childhood,death,
Today Not Tomorrow	Free verse	dedication,depression,gir
Years of the Rose	Free verse	lost love,loveday,
The Joy That Sweetly Stays	Free verse
Cinder Girl	Rhyme
Biography (Thesis Statement)	Verse	history,life,philosophyli
Figure Fusion	Verse	art,sports
Dancing Bird - With Video Link	Free verse	animals,introspection,nat
Poem For a Sensuous Poet	Free verse	fantasy,on writing and wo
The Road Walked Down Through the Years	Rhyme	life,on writing and words
The Iceman Cometh!	Rhyme	nostalgia
He Says/ She Says	Narrative	life
I'Ve Seen So Many	Sonnet	introspectionnight,night,
Searching For Michelangelo	Free verse	art,hope,life,people,imag
Indifference	Free verse
Realisation of Self (War Child)	Free verse	me,me,
Reporting Live On the Soup (Colorado)	Rhyme	funnyme,me,,western,
Late At Night	Lyric	imaginationme,fear,me,
Reverencing Nature	Ballad	faith,naturenature,heart,
Dreams	Couplet	imagination
I Exist	Pantoum	introspectionlife,me,
Madrid: Circa 1974	Blank verse	nostalgia,travel,
Magnolia Song	Free verse	love,romance,
Yellow Bus Roars Through	Haiku	allegory,nature,places
Ethel's Remedies	Rhyme	funny,people
A Dream In the Mist	Narrative	fantasy,imagination,natur
Volga 1 - 3	Prose Poetry	fantasy
Mama's Cleaning	Quatrain	introspection,life,mother
Waking Heart's Veins	Free verse	angst,hope,
Revelation	Free verse	imagination,lifesong,long
Sports Limerick	Limerick	funny
The Snowflake	Italian Sonnet	romance,
Jack	Lyric	introspectionlife,
The Ghost That Travels Far	Personification	nature,
Kite Flying - Test	Free verse	allegory,art,imagination,
Dining With Crow	Rhyme	animals
Beauty, Yes	Sijo	hope,imagination,philosop
Smart and Final Prose	Prose Poetry	peoplepeople,red,city,peo
Tiger In the Sea	Rispetto	adventure,animals,seame,t
A Song of Michael's Rose	Narrative	me,
Where My True Love Lives - a Ballade	Ballade	death,love,ocean,
Into Morning	Free verse	life
Play Me a Teardrop	Rhyme	lost loveme,me,
Tickle Trout	Narrative	adventure,food,
The Sweetest Song	Sonnet

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T Wignesan	France	Read
Elaine George	Canada	Read
Sharon Winter	United States	Read
Michael Smith	United States	Read
Jack Horne	United Kingdom	Read
Paul Callus	Malta	Read
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Michael Jordan	United States	Read
Constance La France	Canada	Read