For poets who want unrestricted constructive criticism. This is NOT a vanity workshop. If you do not want your poem seriously critiqued, do not post here. Constructive criticism only. PLEASE Only Post One Poem a Day!!!
12/16/2014 10:37:59 PM
paul martin
Posts: 12
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you have to read chicktown by John cooper Clarke ,you will have a fit,he also wrote the best poem written in last thirty years imo Beasly street,no formal eduction no college no fancy art courses just naturally gifted,it seems to me your moaning about the collapse of elitism in poetry and how dare it be open to the masses,poetry espically in ireland was used to poke fun at authority,to spread news and gossip,poetry aiways belong to the people before the elitest elements from mainly the victorian era turned into acadamic pursuit,
poetry must be given free expression and not turned into
technical excerise that removes passion lightness of touch
i be interested to know what you think of paddy kavanagh
and brendan behan as writers,The great hunger probaly
the best irish poem ever written no formal eduction no elitism
edited by The bad seed on 12/16/2014
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12/16/2014 10:40:21 PM
paul martin
Posts: 12
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sorry about grammer and spelling typing. this on phone
edited by The bad seed on 12/16/2014
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12/17/2014 1:59:17 PM
Bob Atkinson
Posts: 295
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Paul,
Great points. Being Celtic myself, shamed by my culture that lost control of 80 percent of Europe through social disorganization and backstabbing. Hardly the source for social progress we need.
"...they stood proud in that hall of fame
their words professing honest gain
no simpleton's remarks had they made
in letters naive, profane
Your referenced "works" were laced with profanity, exhibiting lack of culture, lack of restraint, and removing them from consideration by children if we want to "teach our children well". Your comments have merit, although I fail to find the lack of utilization of a powerful tool for progress relegated to the discussion of the sea lapping the shore a good thing. I'm with the mainstream public. Don't usually read poetry. This is the situation I wish to change by altering the genre's current course of stupidity.
****
edited by Bob_Atkinson on 12/18/2014
edited by Bob_Atkinson on 12/18/2014
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12/18/2014 9:59:52 PM
paul martin
Posts: 12
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of course those poems i referenced are not suitable for children and you win the arguement hands down if that
is the perspective your are coming from,but to say poems
like chicken town and beasly street show a lack of culture
just mean you don’t undetstand the anger and poverty
people suffered in nothern england during the thatcher
years,as i said poetry belongs to the people not just to middle class culture vultures who want to wrap it up
in cotton wool and present a utopian world veiw,that is
fine for children as they take first steps in to poetry
but not for critical fuctional adults ,beasly street was added to english school syballus for 16- 18yrs and cooper
clarke is regarded as national treasure ,i presume your
comment dosen’t apply to kavanagh epic poem "the great
hunger" a portrait of rural isolation,teenagers and young
adults ought to readind poems that give a honest and true reflections on life not trapped in moral judgement
that confines their reading and writing to sedate inoffisive
generes,
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12/18/2014 11:04:12 PM
paul martin
Posts: 12
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this the kind of poetry that gets people interested
no bland stuff here
Patrick H Pearse
(Poet, Irish Rebel, Gaelic scholar and visionary)
The Rebel
I am come of the seed of the people,
the people that sorrow,
That have no treasure but hope,
No riches laid up but a memory Of an Ancient glory
My mother bore me in bondage,
in bondage my mother was born,
I am of the blood of serfs;
The children with whom I have played,
the men and women with whom I have eaten,
Have had masters over them,
have been under the lash of masters,
And, though gentle, have served churls;
The hands that have touched mine,
the dear hands whose touch is familiar to me,
Have worn shameful manacles,
have been bitten at the wrist by manacles,
Have grown hard with the manacles and the task-work of strangers,
I am flesh of the flesh of these lowly,
I am bone of their bone,
I that have never submitted;
I that have a soul greater than the souls of my people's masters, I that have vision
and prophecy and the gift of fiery speech,
I that have spoken with God on the top of His holy hill.
And because I am of the people,
I understand the people,
I am sorrowful with their sorrow, I am hungry with their desire:
My heart has been heavy with the grief of mothers,
My eyes have been wet with the tears of children,
I have yearned with old wistful men,
And laughed or cursed with young men;
Their shame is my shame, and I have reddened for it,
Reddened for that they have served,
they who should be free,
Reddened for that they have gone in want,
while others have been full,
Reddened for that they have walked in fear of lawyers and of their jailors
With their writs of summons and their handcuffs,
Men mean and cruel!
I could have borne stripes on my body rather than this shame of my people.
And now I speak, being full of vision;
I speak to my people, and I speak in my people's name to the masters of my people.
I say to my people that they are holy,
that they are august, despite their chains,
That they are greater than those that hold them,
and stronger and purer,
That they have but need of courage,
and to call on the name of their God,
God the unforgetting,
the dear God that loves the peoples For whom He died naked,
suffering shame.
And I say to my people's masters:
Beware, Beware of the thing that is coming,
beware of the risen people,
Who shall take what ye would not give.
Did ye think to conquer the people,
Or that Law is stronger than life and than men's desire to be free?
We will try it out with you,
ye that have harried and held,
Ye that have bullied and bribed,
tyrants, hypocrites, liars!
edited by The bad seed on 12/18/2014
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12/22/2014 5:24:56 PM
Graphite Drug
Posts: 81
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Atkinson, this poem holds reader's attention. It seems to progress better than the last one of yours; yet, there is some difficulty understanding your meaning and your writing. The language is not direct. Taking a chance, Graphite Drug wrote:
Poe’s poetic approach
led to a generation’s empty banter
of form over function
As minorities beg to differ,
truth is defined by democracy
and Poe lied using fiction
The alcoholic bumbler
The lazy stoic
hid from truth in his decline
Poetry at its simplest
understands reasoned time
and that measured empirically
Not like your first four stanzas, there is a differing approach. Don't know if this helps to understand differences, but thought it may be interesting.
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