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Agnes Krampe

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Confused: English quitain example on PS

Blog Posted by Agnes Krampe: 7/12/2017 2:16:00 PM

I looked up the form because there is a new contest that requires it, and this is what PS says:

Definition: This is much more popular form of Quintet having no set measure or foot and has a rhyming scheme of a. b. a. b. b.

Example

Fields we have planted
have ripened slowly to golden husk.
soon they will be harvested.
the air rich with wheaten musk
the fields once more return to dust.

I am confused about the example they picked: "Planted" and "harvested" do not rhyme, and "dust" is not a rhyme to "husk"/"musk".

Does the quintain have to rhyme? If so, why do they pick an example that clearly doesn't? Or is that computer generated and picks anything a poet classified as the form, even if it doesn't actually adhere to the rules?

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Francine
Roberts

Date: 7/12/2017 7:15:00 PM

this is my favourite form and I have run many contests asking for English Quintain, the example sucks, it is a"loose" rhyme at best, I try to have true rhyme and meter when I write one and when I place one in a contest

Craig
Cornish

Date: 7/12/2017 6:46:00 PM

I agree with all that Cyndi says and write in both contemporary and more traditional forms and in slant and other rhymes, but if someone requests an English Sonnet it should be written in the traditional way. Many of the poetrysoup forms are not correct especially with their examples so it is always a good idea to either refer to the internet or if it is for a contest to contact the sponsor for claification

Andrea
Dietrich

Date: 7/12/2017 3:42:00 PM

You are right, Agnes. But this is noT the first time an incorrect example of a foRm has been shown in the pOetry forms pages> Some poets actually believe harvested and planted rhyme and I guess we could consider them somewhat rhymed, while dust and husk are near rhymes.

Cyndi
Macmillan

Date: 7/12/2017 3:41:00 PM

Dust to husk/musk is near/off rhyme. The 'ted' in plan-ted and harves-ted uses a form of rhyme called 'half rhyme'. That being said, I don't go by P.S. examples. If interested in varying rhymes, here is a short article you may find interesting https://www.poetryfoundation.org/learn/glossary-terms/rhyme

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 7/12/2017 5:53:00 PM

Last for a bit... (mom time) ... I've read a metered, Elizabethan rhyme-schemed, 14 line poems which have no volta or metaphoric flow so most editors of today would call them poems or verse, not sonnets.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 7/12/2017 5:50:00 PM

I consider the sonnets written today as contemporary. Edna St. Vincent Millay wrote modern sonnets in the 1930s, I believe. Sonnets follow more a... hmm... a blueprint of flow than a specific syllable/rhyme scheme.. though most editors would agree that the cut off of syllables per line would be around 12. But they can go as short as 8 syllables per line...

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 7/12/2017 5:44:00 PM

A sonnet introduces a metaphor.. the metaphor is elaborated upon, goes more into depth... then, there is the volta, the strong juxtaposition. And usually there is a summary in the closing two lines. Most sonnets have 14 lines. But many do not rhyme.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 7/12/2017 5:43:00 PM

Much more than that. A contemporary sonnet still contains the essential element: a volta. Syllable lengths have never been dead-on, even in classical poetry-- they range from 9-11 per line (with of course many of them adhering to the 10 syllable count.)

Agnes Krampe
Date: 7/12/2017 5:06:00 PM

Thanks for sharing this. I can see what you mean and identify it when I go *looking* for it. It is easier when I read it out loud. Still, it does not "feel" rhymed to me :) Another question if you don't mind: modern sonnets use varying syllable lengths per line? What defines them as sonnet, the 14 lines and rhyme scheme?

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 7/12/2017 4:44:00 PM

Here is a sonnet I had published by the Fieldstone Review. I used a mix of perfect and slant rhyme. I also used some internal rhyme. http://www.fieldstonereview.usask.ca/article.php?article=167

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 7/12/2017 4:34:00 PM

It took me years of reading slant rhyme to myself and out loud to hear/feel its sounds and how assonance and consonance can play with sounds in a poem, make their own music... but it took quite a while for me to let go of a strict adherence to perfect rhyme.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 7/12/2017 4:33:00 PM

We've been conditioned by years and years of perfect rhyme. By songs. By teachers in elementary school. By picture books. By classic poetry. By repetition ... so it makes sense that we ALL resist slant rhyme (Cyndi throws a hand up and yells, "ME TOO ME TOO!")

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 7/12/2017 4:31:00 PM

Exactly, about the centuries of perfect rhyme. I get what you are saying about songs. I enjoy listening to songs BECAUSE they are predictable, easy to remember. When off rhyme is used it changes things up, surprises the reader and gives them something new. Suddenly death and beneath or soul and sold or slam and slum can bring similar sounds to a poem.

Agnes Krampe
Date: 7/12/2017 4:26:00 PM

so is the feeling of it being somehow off a product of being conditioned by centuries of perfect rhyme? (Plus, as a singer, I am partial to perfect rhyme because many song forms require that). I have a hard time "feeling" the near rhyme, if that makes any sense. I can acknowledge it on an intellectual level, but it feels intuitively off

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 7/12/2017 4:19:00 PM

Near or off rhyme is intentionally used by most professional poets because perfect rhyme has usually been done to death (rhymes with breath.) Perfect rhyme is thought of as predictable and overused. (Wife/life/strife. You, blue, true, new, few, WHEW!)

Agnes Krampe
Date: 7/12/2017 4:12:00 PM

Follow up question for you: when a form requires end rhyme (like a sonnet, for example), it feels wrong to me if that is not full rhyme - the near rhyme often comes off as inept, not as intentional. Only my perception?

Agnes Krampe
Date: 7/12/2017 4:01:00 PM

Thank you, Cyndi, this is a fabulous overview!!!

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 7/12/2017 3:49:00 PM

Here's an even better article! http://www.public.asu.edu/~aarios/formsofverse/furtherreading/page2.html PS... one of my poetic tools blog will be looking into rhyme, and its usage in free verse.

Daniel
Turner

Date: 7/12/2017 3:14:00 PM

Not sure why they picked that example, Mrs Agnes, but she said she wanted solid rhymes and specific meter. That is what I'm going with.

Agnes Krampe
Date: 7/12/2017 5:12:00 PM

Oh yes, Daniel, will definitely do that if I write something for her contest. Was just wondering in general.

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Confused: English quitain example on PS

Example

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