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English experiential poet of open verse& creator of the FOOTLE (singular form)&EMAGI digital reverse ekphrasis.A regular @PS since 2007 ,with 9500+ poems posted&sponsor of 1260 contests ( Amazon books- (500+) reviews)GOOGLE my POETRY BLOGS @https://www.blogger.com/profile/02166493604739619406.Read an Ekphrasis e-book for free @ http://free-ekphrasis-ebook.blogspot.com/

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WRITING BY NUMBERS?

Blog Posted:6/10/2017 3:24:00 AM

The latest craze of adult colouring books can be criticized (like its predecessor painting by numbers)as it's not really 'art'.My wife ,follows this latest popular 'fad' as a relaxing hobby and has never unlike myself been a 'free form' artist....and yet .....she has shown she has a 'great' eye for colour selection and harmony one with another , which is one of the keys to art that many 'would be artist' (like myself)would love to be able to formulate.(drawing being my particular skill)

It this not unlike our art form, where learning to write in forms ( buying off the peg,so to speak) is an essential before stepping out into writing 'open' free verse..I can certainly testify this to be an essential prerequisite to 'flying free'

Have you found this to the case for you also?

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Brian
Strand

Date: 6/12/2017 6:29:00 AM

I have posted two blogs which contain a link to expand further upon Charlotte's list of 'free verse' poets and also a more lengthy viewpoint (than is possible inthese PS commentboxes)on 'what poetry is ' for anyone who wishes to pursue further these particular aspects of the comments made on this blog.

Brian
Strand

Date: 6/11/2017 10:22:00 AM

This discussion has prompted in me spinoff blog.If appropriate, do share thereon

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 6/11/2017 10:45:00 AM

And this discussion has also prompted me to put up a blog. I've supplied some examples of 'novice' free verse...

Charlotte
Puddifoot

Date: 6/11/2017 8:21:00 AM

i disagree that learning to write in form is essential before stepping out into free verse...i wrote free verse first, and THEN started learning forms! i knew of no devices and techniques, it was instinctive, picked up purely through reading free verse

Charlotte Puddifoot
Date: 6/11/2017 3:19:00 PM

wrote countless free verse poems before writing in form, had the first one published in a journal at 17...i only started experimenting with form when i joined soup, and only started learning about devices then! i've written in lots of forms: sonnet, haiku, choka, dizain, tanka etc.

Brian Strand
Date: 6/11/2017 9:56:00 AM

and Charlotte How many free verse poems did you write before you wrote poetry in form?and what poetry form did you use?

Brian Strand
Date: 6/11/2017 9:44:00 AM

Whose free verse did you read Charlotte?

Brian
Strand

Date: 6/11/2017 12:38:00 AM

Cyndi, 'You start with prose, simple writing... then you learn to add devices' with you so far ..but what 'devices ' should a novice learn to add and where would he/she find them?

Brian
Strand

Date: 6/11/2017 12:35:00 AM

Cyndi, ' you first learn what poetry is' ...where / how would you advise a novice to do this?

Cyndi
Macmillan

Date: 6/10/2017 7:08:00 PM

How do novices write a pantoum? They read up about the form. They write. They revise. They realize it's total garbage. They write five more. They get better. They learn more. Then, finally, they write one that they think is decent, and they feel good about it... and so on. Same thing for free verse. You read up about figurative language, line breaks as you write prose...then you start trying devices, cutting lines, learning things... but the very two things that are NOT essential nor required for a piece of writing to be defined as poetry are the very two things that novices are ridiculously expected to learn FIRST: rhyme and meter. Figurative language IS essential.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 6/10/2017 7:24:00 PM

What I'm saying that writing to "form" without an understanding of what poetry truly is ... is just stuffing prose into a template and PRETENDING it's poetry. Then they are shocked with they receive less than stellar reviews!

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 6/10/2017 7:16:00 PM

This is why people think that as long as they slap a rhyme where the form tells them, that they've actually written a poem. Rhyme is NOT poetry... it's just one tool. People are writing rhyming prose! That is what writing forms FIRST does.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 6/10/2017 7:11:00 PM

First learn what poetry is and learn how to write it. Then the poet can learn how to box his verse neatly into a template, count his syllables and choose how and where to use rhyme.

Brian
Strand

Date: 6/10/2017 9:52:00 AM

Cyndi, you also mention ' learn all the poetics'.What would they be ? and how would you recommend a novice to do that?

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 6/10/2017 6:55:00 PM

You start with prose, simple writing... then you learn to add devices, understand the weight of words... then start playing with cutting. What is a novice? Somebody who has never ever written a poem? Kids are writing poems...

Brian
Strand

Date: 6/10/2017 9:49:00 AM

Yes Cyndi, I understand we 'learn ' free verse by reading.By reading,(presumably freeverse) but.. whose?

Brian
Strand

Date: 6/10/2017 8:37:00 AM

Interesting point Cyndi about 'first learn free verse' ,how would you advise a complete novice to poetry to do that?

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 6/10/2017 9:16:00 AM

You start with things like the power of contrast, how to break a line for effect, the double meaning of words... its not rocket science and is easy to understand.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 6/10/2017 9:14:00 AM

I've started to teach my eight year old daughter poetics. I've also been teaching her haiku is not three separate lines that must adhere to overly strict syllable counts...but I've taught her that teachers will expect that from her in a year and she should follow their rules.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 6/10/2017 9:11:00 AM

Seriously, unlearning something is harder than learning it.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 6/10/2017 9:10:00 AM

Simple write and practice, read, learn ... its the same thing as a complete novice writing a sonnet...

Brian
Strand

Date: 6/10/2017 8:34:00 AM

Robert Frost's famous quote about free verse being like playing tennis without a net..must have implied a) he knew the rules of tennis and b)the 'court' had tram lines etc !!

Cyndi
Macmillan

Date: 6/10/2017 8:22:00 AM

Actually, I just read an article that theorized we've been learning poetry backwards (and I agree.) We should first learn free verse and all the poetics, the figurative language and THEN learn forms (so that a poet doesn't have to unlearn that rhyme and prosody is what makes poetry ... poetry. I find most written forms far more freer than open form as (too often) the only thought the poet puts into the write is if the syllable count is correct... no attention is paid to layering, word play, connotation or originality. I'd say 99% of those who respond to this blog will agree with you, Brian. Hope you have a good weekend...

Brian Strand
Date: 6/10/2017 8:28:00 AM

Thank you Cyndi ,have a good family weekend yourself

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 6/10/2017 8:24:00 AM

...lol... or now reading some of the other comments... I could very well be wrong about points of view in this regard...

Agnes
Krampe

Date: 6/10/2017 6:58:00 AM

I like writing in form, and my first attempts were form, but I have not found mastering form to be a prerequisite for writing in free verse.

Julia Ward
Date: 6/10/2017 7:12:00 AM

Indeed. The two are unrelated.

Julia
Ward

Date: 6/10/2017 6:37:00 AM

Form is not an essential prerequisite to flying free. I wrote many good free verse poems before trying rhymes and other forms.

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WRITING BY NUMBERS? - Brian Strand's Blog

WRITING BY NUMBERS?

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