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What is Your Opinion on Writing Sonnets?

Blog Posted by Anthony Biaanco: 3/19/2016 10:20:00 AM

I'm really not disciplined or skilled enough to write an effective Sonnet, Basically I'm lazy and gravitate toward a mix of free verse, and imperfect rhyming because I guess it allows me, to an extent, to hide my laziness and lack of skill...What do you think?

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Anthony
Biaanco

Date: 3/21/2016 11:09:00 AM

Never mind, I think I'll stick to Haiku :0

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 12:11:00 PM

Sooooo, Anthony, is it like a ship of aliens apprehended your blog... or are you seeing this as entertainment? LOL... my apologies for going full gusto. I love this subject and love sonnets DEEPLY. Abnormally? In a strange fetish kind of way? Maybe? LOL... anyways. I just yap. My friends get that. Some listen. Some wear ear plugs. :D All's good.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 11:43:00 AM

:D contemporary or traditional (hee hee. Swat me. Even mentioning haiku in Soup can cause people to dive for foxholes. Epic battles... red and white flags, grenades, hand to hand combat... lol... HI! You missed your own party. ) Hey.. do you like film noir?

Brian
Strand

Date: 3/21/2016 9:07:00 AM

Yes,God did create the chicken,and gave us imagination so we too could be creative.The inspiration(muse or what you will) needs a vehicle (our voice) .One breath length(our limiting factor) then determines the cadence,which when written down (to aid memory )is the structure or form .There are many forms or structures that may suit the muse,some by convention have developed into 'off the peg' ,others need to be ' made to measure'.Such is the beauty of our art ,for we who are God' s poiema ( work of art)are designed to create works of art ,for we are made in His image.Hallelujah.

Brian Strand
Date: 3/21/2016 9:27:00 AM

The line may not equal the 'cadence' of one breath.(Enjoy your break,but savour the time now 'til she is eighteen,the house will be very quiet then! and forever thereafter.)

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 9:16:00 AM

Love this, Brian! A breath... I wonder... ?... I will try this, reading Whitman out loud... does each line hold a breath? Will try it out later. Thanks! Hope you have a nice day. I'm on my own for the first time in 9 days! Soooo... quiet. Haha!

Cyndi
Macmillan

Date: 3/21/2016 7:47:00 AM

Craig, I'll arm-wrestle you later (I love to butt heads with you. We get how we can disagree and yet still hold each other in WARMEST regards) I do need to say this: out of soup, unless it mentions it in the title, the poem is not 'categorized.' The reader will like it or not, same goes for the editor. It only matters to the poet where the poem originated or why the lines are arranged as they are. The reader decides how the poem speaks to him/her and an editor decides whether he/she would like to publish the poem based on its content and language. Form is good, but it ONLY holds the content. I've read many poems that pile on adjectives and put in "filler words" only to keep to FORM. BAH

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 7:51:00 AM

The great sonneteers of previous centuries often changed their syllable lengths in lines to keep a word and to omit sloppiness. We have marginalized their craft and have failed to see their why's and how's. We've reduced their gifts into a set of absolute blueprints that THEY never used or would recommend to the next generation of poets.

Cyndi
Macmillan

Date: 3/21/2016 5:41:00 AM

Brian, what you call muse, I call the poet's instinct. When I receive feedback, I listen very carefully to the advice, weigh and consider any suggested changes. What I deeply feel should not be changed, I do not change (because I sense a word, line or entire stanza must remain as written for the realization of my creative expression or the content must remain as is to keep the poem's integrity). I can revise almost an entire poem, or sometimes I can only change two lines. So, yes, if that is what you meant, we should not disobey that small, insistent voice that keeps pointing and yelling, "this way this way!" whether that voice encourages us to either explore our current path or to travel down a strange, new one. I do believe that voice should never be ignored. It is the poet's ART speaking and should be given due respect. PS. The chicken. God-made.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 8:04:00 AM

Sorry, connotation not connation. Ha. Irony.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 8:02:00 AM

So, as respect to you, who can write and does write poetry in many styles and forms, Craig, I say that a writer who simply fills in the blanks, has no poetic eye, has no true concept of connation does not write poetry. Even if it has meter. Even if it rhymes.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 7:59:00 AM

(continued from below) No layering, no ambiguity, no contrast, no unusual way of looking at something we've all seen a million times. No fresh thinking. No originality. Just a rhyme.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 7:59:00 AM

Craig, to put this into perspective, I could anger hundreds on this site by saying what I truly believe (contrasting but in line with what you are saying.) I contend that many poets write in rhyme because if they don't, what they have written would read as prose.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 7:56:00 AM

It's the poet's business how they wish to write a sonnet... with meter, without meter, slant rhyme or perfect rhyme or no rhyme. It is a choice they can make. Anybody with a dictionary can write meter. Not everyone can write poetry.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 7:54:00 AM

Yes. I can write meter. I find meter usually constipates a poem and prevents language being used to push the poem to its next level. It becomes about finding a word that fits the meter, not about a word that fits the imagery or to punch-up the emotion.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 7:39:00 AM

Craig, another way of looking at this is that I have read many, many "sonnets" on soup which follow the rhyme pattern, and yet have no volta whatsoever. No shift. To the sonneteer, the shift IS what defines the sonnet. So should the poets of these poems be told to write to form or call their poems rhyme instead of a sonnet?

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 7:20:00 AM

than should be then

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 7:19:00 AM

Which sonnet form... www.thepoetsgarret.com/sonnet.html There are dozens of sonnet forms... Spenserian... Dutch...a Byron sonnet... a sonnet is a sonnet. What matters are the essential elements. A metaphor grown than opposed and finally summarized in 14 lines (or.. haha!... 16 as some sonnets have 16 lines -- not kidding.)

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 6:08:00 AM

My point here, FOR ANTHONY, is to try to hear that voice. And for the love of mike, don't let anyone tell you that a sonnet must use meter or have to of/love/glove/dove rhyme. Slant rhyme is a poetic tool, not laziness.

Brian
Strand

Date: 3/20/2016 10:42:00 PM

What came first the chicken or the egg?

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/21/2016 6:10:00 AM

:) It would make a great pub blog! Gotta fly!

Brian Strand
Date: 3/20/2016 11:32:00 PM

p.s this was all prompted by my 'muse'.I have learnt not to disobey here,come what may!

Brian Strand
Date: 3/20/2016 11:26:00 PM

Where am I at...Poetry is just structured prose..to be read aloud,if possible to another(s)..it is nothing no matter what structure ,if the 'muse' is asleep.Just my 'two cents as they say' others may have a different tale to tell.(now there's a topic for our PS 'pub' workshop night.)

Brian Strand
Date: 3/20/2016 11:20:00 PM

Much later on my poetry journey here, I discovered tht our art was not completely fulfilled until it was read aloud to another, to create 'as is' moments I label them.Encouraged by another lady here(Carrie)I started to recite my anthology on youtube,to create such moments.Carrie was the first PS poet's voice I heard recite her poetry.(check her out thereon ,(youtube)she has a wonderful way with words)

Brian Strand
Date: 3/20/2016 11:10:00 PM

After a few years of developing and creating short forms (footle etc) a lady here, (Debbie to be exact) ' challenged' me why I did not write longer poetry forms .Shrewd lady,(she sensed my 'achilles heel') .Thus I set out to learn more of this genre of ours.

Brian Strand
Date: 3/20/2016 11:04:00 PM

Later..(a few years..)when I awoke to 'poetry'(poetry was not something for the kind of guy I was ,it still raises an eye brow amongst most folk that I label my self so)the forms of an American lady,the late Adelaide Crapsey (of American Cinquain fame of the early 20th century) prompted my interest in short forms and later still ,I found PS...

Brian Strand
Date: 3/20/2016 10:55:00 PM

One sunny afternoon in the 90's, there popped into my head(an inspiration?) some words of alliteration(my poem CONNECTIONS posted here )prompted by the Holy Spirit as the poem has a Christian content.I had never written a poem before.It was two or three years before I cultivated this 'muse' .The rest is history as they say.Happily 'she,my muse ' has never left me.The form and inspiration came together in my case.

Cyndi
Macmillan

Date: 3/20/2016 10:37:00 PM

Anthony, it's all up to you. But I am telling you, that if you like free verse and know how to off rhyme, read the blogs I have included below. Or simply type into Google, contemporary sonnets ... basically, you keep syllable counts per line between 6 - 13 (on average) you start with a metaphor and build upon it and then you add either a slight or large twist to the sonnet (usually about line 9 but it can be later) Slant rhymes keep it fresh. I could put up a blog, again, with several published examples. I mean published in the past two years, not 60 years ago. Still, if you do wish to learn meter and have help with a traditional English sonnet, Craig is awesome! Go for it! Choices!

Cyndi
Macmillan

Date: 3/20/2016 7:50:00 PM

Folks, some of my all time favourite poems are classic sonnets, metered and perfectly rhymed. However, as said, there are many ways to write a sonnet. Some of the best poets of today are sonneteers and most focus on content, language, imagery, uncommon word pairings. What I am saying to THIS poet who has said, "I gravitate towards a mix of free verse and imperfect rhyming" IS GREAT! That will enhance a contemporary sonnet. Don't let that go! Use what comes naturally and WRITE IN YOUR PREFERRED MANNER and do not let anyone tell you that you can't write a sonnet in YOUR natural voice or style. Cause not only are unmetered and slant rhymed sonnets acceptable, they are appreciated and valued OUTSIDE OF SOUP. If he wishes to try traditional because he wants to, wants to learn that skill, then GOOD. Go for it. But that is not what I'm reading in his blog. Read the Prism blog! Sonnets belong to the sonneteer and can be written a thousand ways. If you'd like more information, let me know. Cheers, Cyndi

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 10:37:00 PM

Love ya, Craig! xoxox

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 10:30:00 PM

The focus has always been about the forms! Not about the content! Not about trope! We keep going back to the ridiculous and abso-bloody-lutely USELESS need to keep syllable count! It has no poetic purpose! NONE! It leads to a total misunderstanding of what poetry can be.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 10:27:00 PM

I can love the people, but still see that we teach things @ss backwards, here. I'm not dissing SOUP. I am saying that the order of things is screwed up!

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 10:24:00 PM

I read an amazing villanelle the other day in a journal. Stellar. Soulful. It was obvious the poet knew the significance of CONTENT. The form came second. The content first and so it was a good villanelle.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 10:22:00 PM

Meter does not equal poetry!

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 10:22:00 PM

And don't have others called rhymed prose poetry!

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 10:21:00 PM

Poetry is not form! But yes, form can be poetry! Form does not make it poetry.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 10:20:00 PM

Nope. I had to UNLEARN everything I picked up here on soup. If I had done it the other way? Learned about language and then the rest? COunt your silly-bulls. That is all that matters. STUPID! Would have worked much better.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 10:18:00 PM

And it isn't ME giving free reign...

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 10:17:00 PM

No... there is more than 14 lines... it has a metaphor which is built up rapidly, a twist somewhere... a story in 14 lines, so to speak.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 10:16:00 PM

Meter is not required in poetry. Nor is rhyme. Nor is form. What is required? A way of seeing and then describing either an experience or emotion is a way that is fresh and deep. That should be the first focus... the rest builds off that... not the other way around!

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 10:10:00 PM

The difference is that I believe that content comes before form. It's like learning an instrument. First, you learn the notes. Then, you pick up the instrument. The instrument is the form whether it be a terzanelle or an ode. The music is the content... the language, wordplay and the guts of poetry. It isn't about which is harder to learn. But which is ESSENTIAL in poetry.

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 8:15:00 PM

PS--Anthony, I'd advise that you do not change your sonnets to fit "beats." I'd advise you focus on language and content.

Brian
Strand

Date: 3/20/2016 2:37:00 AM

The sonnet ,a form imported from Italy ,was the 'father' of English language poetry.A true game changer,as it became 'naturalised ' here, and yet simple enough if broken down into its constituent parts as my Tien4Today posting shows .(Simply 3 quatrains plus a couplet)It has proved to be an excellent learning tool then and so remains.I commend if only for that reason,learn two other forms at the same time!

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 8:19:00 PM

Hi Brian. :)

Cyndi
Macmillan

Date: 3/19/2016 8:36:00 PM

//prismmagazine.ca/2013/12/10/prompt-the-30-minute-sonnet/ This is a great article! Prism is a highly lauded literary journal here in Canada. I love contemporary sonnets because I am foremost a free verse poet, yet the brevity of the sonnet and the weight it can carry in 14 lines is the kind of candy I crave! I've had two of my contemporary sonnets published so far www.fieldstonereview.usask.ca/article.php?article=167 and www.ekphrastic.net/ekphrastic/the-sick-child-by-mary-c-mccarthy ... journals enjoy contemporary sonnets that use slant rhyme, not because slant rhyme is lazy, but because it freshens the form... gives worn out/overused rhyme a breather. Anyway, try it, my vote. :)

Cyndi Macmillan
Date: 3/20/2016 8:06:00 PM

Dear Craig, I still respect traditional forms. I own many old poetry books and love them all. But I also love contemporary sonnets. Had this poet said, "I love traditional rhyme and I ACHE to learn meter," I'd have given different advice. You don't try to make a ruby into an emerald. They are what they are...

Cyndi
Macmillan

Date: 3/19/2016 7:22:00 PM

www.poetrysoup.com/poetry_blogs/blog_detail.aspx?PoetID=23760&BlogID=19648 Here you go... I wrote a blog about this some time ago. I hope you find this helpful! Cheers, Cyndi

Cyndi
Macmillan

Date: 3/19/2016 7:16:00 PM

Contemporary sonnets do not require rhyming nor do they need to be metered. I'll come back and put up a link to some amazing sonnets! Free verse and sonnets naturally fit together! Please make sure to check sources OFF OF SOUP about sonnets. There are many different styles for sonnets... and contemporary sonnets are well read and appreciated and PUBLISHED off of Soup. If you like to add a twist to your poetry, then sonnets ARE perfect! It's really about the volta. Later! Cyndi

Frederic
Parker

Date: 3/19/2016 6:22:00 PM

It depends on how you look at it.Like Andrea said some poets are more comfortable writing sonnets, it's sorta like playing a musical instrument, some play a guitar, some play a flute..etc..write what makes you feel comfortable, it's your voice that is put to paper..not to say learning a different form is a bad thing, in fact it can be a good thing, but it takes time, poets tend to write in a form that expresses what they feel...just write what you write and let it take you where it will

Andrea
Dietrich

Date: 3/19/2016 4:36:00 PM

Forms that use iambic pentameter are best ones for me because it is the natural meter that comes into my head when I write a poem. it makes it difficult for me to write free verse because I have to switch off the beat. But i still find myself wanting to write my free verse with this kind of flow. I discovered my forte was with sonnets and other traditional forms when I took a poetry course online back in 2001 and learned all about many of the different forms out there! Great blog for us. I have many sonnets on site here if you ever want to see mine. I have helped some of my friends change the lines in their sonnets to match the correct beat, if you ever need any help with lines.

Andrea Dietrich
Date: 3/19/2016 4:39:00 PM

It is funny that I am opposite you, Anthony. For me, sonnet is the lazy way! They are very easy for me while free verse is more difficult.

Casarah
Nance

Date: 3/19/2016 3:18:00 PM

I enjoy the challenge, I am not set in my ways as to form or force, but when I do one and I am proud of it, I dig it. It gives me a way to see beyond my normal boundaries, makes me a manipulator of words and feelings that I may not have been able to reach without the confinement. As with any unfamiliar form, I like to try and conquer.

Daniel
Turner

Date: 3/19/2016 2:57:00 PM

I love good sonnets. I have been trying to learn for going on 2 months. I wouldn't say I have not written a good one yet but I have written more bad than good. I find it extremely difficult to find the precise words and fitting them into the structure. On the other hand, when I complete one there is a certain sense of self gratification from just completing the task. I find them rewarding. Peace my friend:)

Rob
Carmack

Date: 3/19/2016 1:36:00 PM

You may not be disciplined enough, but I would not say you are not skilled enough until you have tried many times to write a Sonnet. I think I have written two Shakespearean Sonnets, and I think they turned out ok. They are PITAs, but I believe Sonnets are worth the time and effort. I would suggest you try one, make it a part time project that you spread over a couple of weeks, this way, you don't rush it and you can take your time.

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