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Rob Carmack

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A Reformed Baptist residing in Maryland, with my dogs Sierra & Tango & Scrub
Never forgetting:

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. ~ Ecclesiastes 9:10

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Blog Posted by Rob Carmack: 10/10/2017 4:43:00 PM

Concerning forms, the example lists are most likely populated by code – a code that does not have a subroutine to ensure the poem is truly in form. They could develop code for it, but remember, that costs money. I am assuming the owner(s) do not write the code for this site.

And with some forms, code validation would be difficult and very problematic. TPS could manually populate the lists, but this would be labor intensive and prone to bias.

I don't think there is an easy fix for this issue.

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Andrea
Dietrich

Date: 10/12/2017 8:02:00 PM

Rob, wouldn't it be cool if someone at Soup could represent forms the way Marie did? It really would not take THAT much work to find samples from among members here to represent all the various forms. Look how well they have already organized poems by topic in the search engine. Brian was able to get his footle form finally shown here. I wish I could get my Andaree put up! They would just need to take some time but they could come up with some excellent quality work if they had the right people involved.

Rob Carmack
Date: 10/12/2017 11:39:00 PM

A 'Forms Committee' could be formed. This could be an exclusive perk for Lifetime Members. For example, the committee could be 5 - 10 persons who serve a 1 year term. If after one year, no one else wants in, they can stay another year. This way, TPS defers most of the labor to the Lifers who get more control with the site. So Mrs Paycheck’s whispers become roars and we leave middle school.

Connie
Pachecho

Date: 10/12/2017 2:08:00 AM

It's best that someone has legs in view of sitting problems. Like it's better that the beavers use their teeth to close a hole. Can words take root and shake a tree? Your move PS. Truly, you can ignore the whispers if you choose not to aspire. For a definition of a sonnet at SP is collegiate and here it's middle school.

Rob Carmack
Date: 10/12/2017 4:42:00 PM

Mrs Paycheck, I think the only way they can correct the examples lists, is to go through each one manually. But this is contrary to a database driven site. Takes too much time. We will see what TPS does, but I would not get too hopeful.

Craig Cornish
Date: 10/12/2017 3:25:00 PM

Wow, that clears things up, thanks Connie!

Andrea
Dietrich

Date: 10/11/2017 10:38:00 PM

One place that usually has fair representations of form is ShadowPoetry.com. I wish Marie, who operated it, was still active over there. Forms change through time, for example, people writing villanelle modernized them by slightly altering the repeating lines. Sonnets have been modernized, etc etc. I always say, if one has mastered a form ,it's ok to pursue altering it to see what you can come up with (but if a contest calls for a certain way, just do the way the contest sponsor says) A contest sponsor should be well enough acquainted with the form he is judging to give a good example of it even if it means searching the internet elsewhere for that example!.

Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/12/2017 7:59:00 PM

and thanks, Craig.

Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/12/2017 7:58:00 PM

Rob, I believe Marie used only samples from her poet community and she was very good about knowing who was writing which forms the correct way. She let me represent a few of them. There are maybe at least a hundred forms over there. She even has a really new form section where my friends and I got to have our own created forms showcased and I have been able to actually find samples of poems in my forms by googling them. I was very surprised and so happy she did that for us. My latest invented form she never got around to putting up but I had a friend named Jan Turner who I think created at least 8 forms which have become a bit famous thanks to Shadowpoetry!

Rob Carmack
Date: 10/12/2017 4:36:00 PM

Did Marie manually populate her examples?

Craig Cornish
Date: 10/12/2017 3:26:00 PM

Well said AD

Craig
Cornish

Date: 10/11/2017 3:03:00 PM

Most examples of correct forms are not accurate at all and totally misleading and that is true for most poetry sites. It only matters if form is an issue and more hosts than not don't even know. Examples on this site are a joke but then it only matters if form is a contest issue because form matters zero in the world of publishing, with some exceptions. Like anything in life know who you are writing to and why and, if you care, make the best effort to abide by their requirements. BTW, everyone is correct that a blog that asks a question and allows no commenting is one that asks the bloggers sanity.

Craig Cornish
Date: 10/12/2017 9:54:00 AM

Okey dokey

Rob Carmack
Date: 10/11/2017 4:46:00 PM

Perhaps sanity, but it could also be a result of emotional trauma. Still having the need to be heard, but controlled so as to avoid any further trauma. It is also possible, that the blog was by ‘design’. From the topic through restricting commenting, the blog may be an experiment to see how we would respond. Maybe we are over thinking it, could be the original was just a vent, or a tactic to encourage TPS to fix the issue.

Agnes
Krampe

Date: 10/10/2017 5:22:00 PM

I agree; that is my impression. I have seen examples that do not accurately represent the form, but if the poet who posts the poem chooses the form incorrectly, it will pop up as an example for this form. While I think it would be lovely if somebody chose really GOOD examples for each form, I think nobody has this amount of time to spend. I really wish people asking questions in their blogs would not block answers, so that people could answer directly on the blog.

Darren White
Date: 10/11/2017 8:42:00 AM

Sometimes people get downright angry if you try to suggest a correct form, others are grateful, and then there are the people who simply don't care because they only want to get a poem out asap.

Darren White
Date: 10/11/2017 8:42:00 AM

If you, as I do, greet (almost all) new poets, you grow very tired of correcting the form. I still do, but sometimes you just come across people of whom you KNOW they will never get it. The most chosen forms are ABC (is top choice) Blank Verse (because it doesn't rhyme) and I Don't Know?

Jan Allison
Date: 10/10/2017 6:02:00 PM

I've recently seen poems with an incorrect description of the form written underneath it which is unfortunate as people copy so they will continue to make mistakes:-( hugs jan xx

Rob Carmack
Date: 10/10/2017 5:39:00 PM

Peeps choosing their own form, when it is not the correct form, degrade the credibility of this site. But that is the price paid when the site is public. Those who disable comments are easily negated by doing what I have done, simply create an open blog in response. I have seen others do this and it is effective.

Jan
Allison

Date: 10/10/2017 5:04:00 PM

I tend to look at Shadow poetry for forms as I'm told the descriptions there are a lot more accurate than the soup ones. If sponsors show incorrect rules and don't adhere to the forms when judging contests it really doesn't help people to learn and they will continue to make mistakes. I enter fewer and fewer contests now but i may still write if inspired by the theme.

Andrea Dietrich
Date: 10/11/2017 10:38:00 PM

oh good, you mentioned ShadowPoetry!!!

Rob Carmack
Date: 10/10/2017 5:35:00 PM

This is one of the reasons I don't host metrical contests. Takes too long to analyze each entry, plus, where and how much substitution does one allow?

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