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Stripped

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Rick Keeble kindly informed me that this is actually a senryu, not a haiku. : )

Big world rich view I took the pauper's oath Then you could see me

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John Michaels

Date: 4/15/2017 4:00:00 AM

It's interesting how your (excellent) little poem has sparked debate. I've written several hundred Haiku / Senryu and usually adhere to the 5/7/5 form, but have always been more liberal with the season / cutting elements that you mention. I agree 100% with your comments about content taking priority over form: I'd far rather read a beautiful / thought-provoking piece that's out by a few syllables, than one that hits those beats, but leaves me cold. Keep doing what you're doing! Regards, John.

Doug Vinson
Date: 4/15/2017 1:27:00 PM

Good comments, John. : ) The "cutting" idea is new to me - I understand it a little, from recent reading, i.e. there will e a word that separates two overall thoughts - but I have yet to think about it when writing. Gah!

Andrea Dietrich

Date: 12/11/2016 8:02:00 PM

Of course (responding to what you said below) That is why it makes more sense to be freer with syllables and not adhere to a silly standard of 5/7/5. (sure is hard to keep them UNDER that number though) and makes me wonder if the Japanese would find a longer one to not read well.

Doug Vinson
Date: 12/11/2016 10:04:00 PM

Despite there being some great English-language Haikus, and perhaps to engage in a gross generalization, I think they would find many of "ours" as blundering, ham-fisted, or, even when pretty good as poetry, "not real Haiku."

Andrea Dietrich

Date: 12/9/2016 8:17:00 PM

Interesting view point!! I am reading what someone said to you and I disagree on syllable count. The old way is old hat. AT least you are abiding by modern standards where syllables apply!

Doug Vinson
Date: 12/9/2016 9:15:00 PM

Andrea, apparently we (the English method) have taken an incredibly easy way out, compared to Japanese standards. There is no way to do "the same thing" in English due to the differences in the languages.

Eve Roper

Date: 12/9/2016 7:51:00 PM

If your talking about people yes it is a senryu but if you were personifying a plant or part of nature well then Haiku either way very good poem the only problem is this has got a 4,6,5 syllable count when both Haiku & but Senryu have a 5,7,5 syllable count or 17 syllables in all.. But guess what I google and they are all different.. HugsEve

Doug Vinson
Date: 12/9/2016 8:57:00 PM

Eve, good comments, and it's a good discussion. : ) I have read that in Japanese, many of the words used to describe nature are fairly long, with 3 or more syllables. In English, expressing the same things often takes less, leading to Haikus with fewer than 17 syllables

Doug Vinson
Date: 12/9/2016 8:56:00 PM

Also, syllables are not even an accurate description of the tabulated metric units in Japanese haikus, where counted 'sounds' are the deal, and this may differ even from the way the given word is pronounced in Japanese. At first glance, this seems quite complicated, I know.

Doug Vinson
Date: 12/9/2016 8:55:00 PM

I am fine with 7-5-7 as a starting point, but if adherence to a form will harm content, then I say that form must take a back seat. We have greater freedom in English than would be present with the Japanese method, and frankly that makes it much easier.

Doug Vinson
Date: 12/9/2016 8:54:00 PM

Things are quite strict in Japan, more requiring a 'season' word and later a 'cutting' word that separates the haiku, with another image following that is compared to the first, without emotional judgment. The poet intends for the reader to feel the same thing, but the reader isn't told how to feel, they are left to do it for themselves. As you can see, this will often require considerable art.

Paloma P

Date: 12/9/2016 8:16:00 AM

Stripped naked for acceptance, all that bling gets in the way of serious connections. Only way to go...

Doug Vinson
Date: 12/9/2016 8:19:00 PM

Paloma, bring on the purifying fire!

Chris Green

Date: 12/9/2016 6:43:00 AM

You weren't wearing the emperors new clothes were you? :) "Then you could see me" Were they looking down? Nice one Doug.

Doug Vinson
Date: 12/9/2016 8:18:00 PM

Thanks, Chris. : ) --Doug AKA "Tripod"