For poets who want unrestricted constructive criticism. This is NOT a vanity workshop. If you do not want your poem seriously critiqued, do not post here. Constructive criticism only. PLEASE Only Post One Poem a Day!!!
12/13/2014 3:09:12 PM
Kate Ginsberg
Posts: 14
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Sat down, and received this just now...
Weed
Entwined
Like a snake wrapped around my cerebrum
spiraling away my thoughts
Breaking free
as tendrils fall away
desiccated vines
revealing fresh green growth beneath
(c) copyright 2014 by Kate Ginsberg
Well it certainly seems to flow well......
edited by Emkatster on 12/13/2014
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12/15/2014 1:01:15 PM
Kate Ginsberg
Posts: 14
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Fail to find purpose in your poem. Doesn't tell me anything I don't already know. You didn't have to research the subject to write it? "
For some reason I find this amusing. What do you think it tells you that you already know? Do you think it's about gardening? What subject would I have researched? But you're right, it's a personal impression of an emotional experience, a very real one. And thanks. I needed an objective analysis. The purpose for me is expressing my feelings. Lol. It's about my mind re-awakening.
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12/15/2014 6:03:54 PM
Graphite Drug
Posts: 81
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It gives an excellent image. It is a good start to something. The subject seems to be a weed or weeds inhabiting your thoughts. It would be interesting to hear about those thoughts. If not literal ideas, try to give abstractions of the thoughts that are wrapping around your mind. Best not to be confessional. I liked it.
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12/16/2014 4:15:23 AM
Kate Ginsberg
Posts: 14
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Thanks I'm glad someone likes it. It's about the kind of weed that inhibits your thoughts. Nothing complicated. What are abstractions of thoughts? I think you guys are too complicated for me. It's been almost 25 years since I discussed meter, form, etc. I just write what I feel. But I'm coming out of my fog. Have some reading to do. And Mr. A, poetry is art, not carpentry! Go ahead and critique this one (not mine). Know who wrote it?
A Cloud withdrew from the Sky
Superior Glory be
But that Cloud and its Auxiliaries
Are forever lost to me
Had I but further scanned
Had I secured the Glow
In an Hermetic Memory
It had availed me now.
Never to pass the Angel
With a glance and a Bow
Till I am firm in Heaven
Is my intention now.
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12/16/2014 12:58:15 PM
Bob Atkinson
Posts: 294
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Kate, Edgar Allan Poe agreed with you. I, on the other hand, agree with Homer.
One believed poetry to be an Art, the other a discipline equal to art, science, medicine,
engineering, history, psychology, sociology, and others, thereby combining elements of all disciplines into one useful endeavor moving humanity forward in the evolutionary cycle.
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12/16/2014 3:55:20 PM
Kate Ginsberg
Posts: 14
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That certainty clarifies things. I respect your view. I believe in freedom of expression. Love history and science and I suck at math. I guess it depends on your purpose in writing. Some poetry is just self-expression (ok indulgence too) and other poetry can be instructive and enlightening, especially if accessible to many others. I also write rhyming children's poetry, which I'm sure you'd hate. But it's not for grim adults, it's for engaging kids and instilling in them a love of language. And not everyone can read Homer. What about people for whom English is a second language or those who haven't been fortunate enough to afford a formal education? I do enjoy this discussion though. We need poets like you too! And we aren't moving forward in the evolutionary cycle until all people are treated equally regardless of skin color, etc. The revolutionary cycle. Sorry feeling very political these days. Maybe I'll try writing about that! Nervous about "form" after all those years of medical transcription, ugh that can ruin a writer's English undoubtedly! Funny my job was so exacting. Maybe my writing rebels against that!
edited by Emkatster on 12/16/2014
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12/16/2014 11:00:58 PM
Kate Ginsberg
Posts: 14
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Thanks this is very valuable insight. How do you research for your poem? Assume if it's historical, you research the subject? What else, I want to learn more. I actually have not written much for many years. Finally unemployed and disabled and I have some time now. Take care and happy Holidays! 
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4/10/2015 11:07:27 PM
Mark Ackerson
Posts: 12
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Bob, I must strongly disagree with you! Be wary of too much semantics, too much academia and structured format. I fear that to do so will lose the very essence of poetic creativity. I found the poem to be the author's discovery of self, growth and being. Poetry can also simply be a celebration of life. Your 10 reasons to write poetry are downright spooky, as well as you labeling Haiku as nonsense. Don't stare into the abyss to long...
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4/10/2015 11:25:31 PM
Bob Atkinson
Posts: 294
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Mark, I found her to be a lovely person. I found her poem to be junk.
What can I say? Have this aversion to poetry that makes non-poets crinkle
their lips when you say the word poetry. Have a dislike (intense) for off the cuff
poetry that doesn't require research to write. Do a web search for: poetry critic
- if you wish to hear more from me. (check out the first listing).
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4/11/2015 8:12:47 PM
K.M North
Posts: 97
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Hey Kate, I've gone over this little poem and conversation a few times and decided against voicing my opinion on such things. It kind of ate at me so I decided to join in. First off, I like your poem. It's simple in its verses but as I found from reading it multiple times resonated slowly with me. The first time I read it thought it just simple and easy to get over, but upon reading it further I've grown to like it more and more. So good job for that. Now, on to the fun stuff...I think you kind of tied your own rope so to speak Bob by listing your insane "ten reasons to write a poem" because if I have read her poem correctly, and I'm pretty sure I have, it falls into categories five, nine and ten, so I think in all your critique loses all merit. Your views on Haiku's and prose poetry are made without base in my opinion. Did Shakespeare ever research any of his poetry? Gingsberg? Kerouac? Whitman? Homer is fantastic and long winded. I have been a fan of his work for a long while now but nothing he has ever written has hit me or entertained me on a personal level. Considering yourself a poetry critic {I don't believe having a blog quite qualifies you, but that's neither here nor there} doesn't make your critique professional. I believe in promoting reading and writing of any levels and of any kinds. I'm not a fan of alot of different styles of writing, but I encourage people to do so since it's what they want to do in their heart. "50 shades of grey" and "The odyssey" aren't on the same level if you ask me but I can tell you for sure that I know more people who enjoy "50 shades" a whole lot more. Everyone is different and likes different things. You should help "the advancement of poetry" by offering criticism the author can use. Give her ideas that she could use going forward. Is Kate's poem the best I've ever read? No it isn't {sorry Kate, I did like it however} but I felt more when reading it than I did reading your poem about a Paul Simon song {both of which I didn't relate to at all and thus felt nothing about}. If I want to read about architecture, I'll look for a book written by an architect. If I want to read about art, I'll find someone who is either an art academic or an artist. Poetry is an escape from those mediums. Same way short stories are an escape from novels, same way novels are an escape from book sets {Harry Potter, Lord Of The Rings}...Sure you get my point. I didn't really mean to go off on such things to such an extent, I just disagree with pretty much every single point you made {quite honestly I think you wanted to start a discussion rather than critique a poem, since you didn't really do that. Saying you dislike something isn't a critique, it's stating a fact. A critique is submitting criticism in hopes to help the author going forward. Anyway, keep writing Kate, I look forward to reading your other stuff. High five Mark, I agree with you wholly. If Bob, you'd like to take your cheap shots {yeah, I called that} I posted two poems I'm quite sure you will hate with every fiber of your being in the high critique portion of the site. I do take criticism quite well, if in fact you offer it this time-Kevin
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4/11/2015 9:07:56 PM
K.M North
Posts: 97
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Finally some good criticism. I just re-read my rant and see that in this version {I had written an earlier version in which I actually talked more about the poem but decided not to post it} I barely mention the poor poem. I agree with most of what you say Lawrence, I however do like the "spiraling away..." line because that's how I view the snake and the base of the cerebrum. For the rest I think you nailed it head on though, maybe for the second "away" use aside?
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4/12/2015 1:08:20 AM
Bob Atkinson
Posts: 294
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Kevin, Kevin, Ginsberg? Where's WMI (Waste Management Inc) when you need them?
Ginsberg's junk...utter junk. Bing: Poet. When you finish my 1500 pages of examples on why and how to write poetry, all the first APA Style poetry you've ever seen, then you might begin to understand the genre'. Else, you're in a fantasy world of the uninitiated. You're winging it with the Architecture comment, a sign of the untrained. As Chandos said, "the world doesn't respect American Poetry." Something I'm trying to change with little steps. Get on that bandwagon dude, else get off the train.
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4/12/2015 11:13:57 AM
K.M North
Posts: 97
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So basically the last 60 years of american writers {I'm using writers not just poets} who grew and felt the words of Kerouac, Gingsberg, Thompson {and so, so many more} are wrong? They're stupid cause apparently they're reading junk? Like I said simply because you call yourself a critic doesn't make you one. Having a blog doesn't automatically classify you as a poetry critic. I see you decided not to challenge my Shakespeare idea though, I mean, one of the greatest writers and poets surely you wouldn't drop down with the likes of say "Dylan Thomas, Langston Hughes, T.S Eliot, Robert Frost". The very reason that other forms of poetry besides long winded epics {that are worse than textbooks since they usually leave out important information that one might need, but take the same amount of time to read} is that people wanted something else, perhaps even something they could relate to. Imagine that, a poem that actually hits you on a level that reading about a battle that you've never heard of, featuring people you've never heard of doesn't. Those people must have been crazy. I've been a published poet since I was 18. I've written my fair share of papers/poems/short stories and novels. I tend to know alot of writers and readers alike that don't share an ounce of your ideas. And no my architecture challenge doesn't fall flat, it's appropriate. Are you to say you know more about buildings than someone who has dedicated their life to it? Should I go and see you when I'm sick rather than a doctor because you wrote a poem on Dr. Heidegger? It's not just American poetry the world doesn't respect, no offense but people simply mock poetry these days. I'm a young man, I've been delving into poetry since I was quite young and have learned one thing, no one cares if you write poetry anymore. Very few make money from doing it, even fewer actually get celebrated for it. You mentioned you submitting a textbook of APA style poetry to the education board, the first of it's kind I believe you called it. Perhaps it's the first of it's kind for a reason? Perhaps that no one has agreed with your ideas anytime before this. And to be honest from a "critic" standpoint, since you've stated a few times that's what you like to be called, you simply didn't offer anycritique of Kate's poem {which essentially is the basis for this whole conversation, this whole forum, and her whole submission}. So I think you've lost your "critic" card until you actually critique something. You can have it back when you've earned it. Class dismissed please move on to "reading apeing Homers style, even though you're not Homer 101"
edited by Reisenhoffer on 4/12/2015
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4/12/2015 11:53:11 AM
Mark Ackerson
Posts: 12
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Well said, Kevin! I have seen poets write within the confines of a sand box of their own designs. Much of poetry and its acceptance, its popularity, is determined by a poet's ability at self promotion. But unless it is great poetry, it will fade from the annals of historic compilations of poetry. Great poetry may not be recognized by the world until a poet is long dead and gone. Such is life. If poetry is created foremost for the purpose of recognition and publication of a poet, then it has missed the mark. A poet must possess "creative juices" and thirst to explore words, pictures if you will, of self and the world in which the poet lives in and perceives. I'm not alluding to Ginsberg's poem being well done and polished, but I "get" it and it is deserving of thought and editing.
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8/19/2015 4:07:33 AM
SUNIL MATHUR
Posts: 8
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'Entwined' and 'wrapped around' are the same thing. So this is only a duplication of words. 'Entwined like a snake around my cerebrum' should convey the meaning quite well. But why 'cerebrum'? This refers only to a physical part of the brain, whereas what is relevant here is mind or thoughts. "spiralling away my thoughts". What is this supposed to mean? Apart from the fact that "spiraling my thoughts" is the correct usage, 'spiraling away' does not convey much. You could substitute 'thoughts' for 'cerebrum', and then add in the next line that these (i.e. thoughts) have consequently got stifled, confused, clouded, or something of that sort. "Breaking free". What? Obviously your thoughts, not the weed. Here it is your thoughts that are supposed to break free and transcend the stifling environment created by the weed. But what you are emphasizing is fresh green growth BENEATH the weed. "Fall away desiccated vines" also does not sound right. The tendrils would fall from or fall away from desiccated vines.
edited by sunilmathur on 8/19/2015
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8/19/2015 8:08:43 AM
jill spagnola
Posts: 12
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sunilmathur wrote:
'Entwined' and 'wrapped around' are the same thing. So this is only a duplication of words. 'Entwined like a snake around my cerebrum' should convey the meaning quite well. But why 'cerebrum'? This refers only to a physical part of the brain, whereas what is relevant here is mind or thoughts. "spiralling away my thoughts". What is this supposed to mean? Apart from the fact that "spiraling my thoughts" is the correct usage, 'spiraling away' does not convey much. You could substitute 'thoughts' for 'cerebrum', and then add in the next line that these (i.e. thoughts) have consequently got stifled, confused, clouded, or something of that sort. "Breaking free". What? Obviously your thoughts, not the weed. Here it is your thoughts that are supposed to break free and transcend the stifling environment created by the weed. But what you are emphasizing is fresh green growth BENEATH the weed. "Fall away desiccated vines" also does not sound right. The tendrils would fall from or fall away from desiccated vines.
edited by sunilmathur on 8/19/2015
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jill
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8/19/2015 8:13:33 AM
jill spagnola
Posts: 12
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My late husband had a chordoma entwined around the vessels at the base of his skull. I wish it had been just wrapped around. When weed is ready it is puffy fresh green growth...peace
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jill
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